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Saints Crushed By Goodell

  • TerpPride said...

    yeah, I can understand its roots. when I played in HS it was always great to watch film and get the stickers. But the more vicious the hit, the more stickers and applause you get. You start mixing that in with real pro athletes targeting players, money, ego, and some guys who are more immature than others and it's the slippery slope with which I'm concerned. And then you get the guys who want to upstage the latest hit. After Barnes made Best puke against Cal, I'm sure guys were jacked to get a similar hit. Now you mix that in with money, specific players and coaches sponsoring the program and you are asking for trouble imo. just sayin

    I don't believe this "tradition" stuff at all. I've heard more and more former players come out from the 60's 70's and 80's saying that this never happened during their days of playing. Playing professional football is like a brotherhood, and you end up becoming really close to a lot of opposing players. They said they would never imagine doing something like this.

    I honestly think it's been something that just developed over the past 10 years to get these new version of self-centered "superstar" players, who lack motivation/only care about money, get into the game more.

    kameterp

  • HoopheadVII said...

    Don't believe those penalties are appealable to anyone other than the Commissioner himself. According to the NFL bylaws, he has authority to impose penalties up to a certain amount, and the authority to recommend additional penalties to the Executive Committee, which then needs a 3/4 majority of teams to pass further sentence. There is a process for appealing the additional penalties imposed by the Executive Committee, but not the "lesser" penalties imposed by the Commissioner. All of the penalties given here fall within the Commissioner's authority.

    I never understood why the players did not change this in the new CBA. Goodell should not be judge and jury for the players and also handle the appeals.

    jsh ●

  • HoopheadVII said...

    Don't believe those penalties are appealable to anyone other than the Commissioner himself. According to the NFL bylaws, he has authority to impose penalties up to a certain amount, and the authority to recommend additional penalties to the Executive Committee, which then needs a 3/4 majority of teams to pass further sentence. There is a process for appealing the additional penalties imposed by the Executive Committee, but not the "lesser" penalties imposed by the Commissioner. All of the penalties given here fall within the Commissioner's authority.

    damn, that's like David Stern level power. sucks for the Saints and Payton. What a costly mistake.

    TerpPride

  • DarrellGreenFan said...

    Big shocker that this is the only poster who doesn't think that this penalty is over the top.

    I think it's harsh, but not over the top.

    1) There are explicit rules against paying non-contract bonuses

    2) They gave incentives to injure other players

    3) Payton lied about his knowledge of the program, ignored instructions to end the program, later denied that it still existed, and instructed his coaches to lie to the NFL about the existence of the program.

    This went on for 3 years.

    HoopheadVII

  • jsh said...

    I never understood why the players did not change this in the new CBA. Goodell should not be judge and jury for the players and also handle the appeals.

    I believe there is a grievance procedure for players - as they are represented by the NFLPA. Club employees apparently all sign a contract agreeing to be subject to Commissioner discipline.

    HoopheadVII

  • chivas said...

    Warren Sapp saying Jeremy Shockey is the snitch who told the NFL.

    Is anybody surprised by that?

    terp_in_ohio

  • kameterp said...

    I don't believe this "tradition" stuff at all. I've heard more and more former players come out from the 60's 70's and 80's saying that this never happened during their days of playing. Playing professional football is like a brotherhood, and you end up becoming really close to a lot of opposing players. They said they would never imagine doing something like this.

    I honestly think it's been something that just developed over the past 10 years to get these new version of self-centered "superstar" players, who lack motivation/only care about money, get into the game more.

    The concept has been around...we did it in HS and most colleges do it. It's different when you're talking about money though.

    And that's where I agree with you...it's silly to have to motivate these guys. and while the "bonuses" can be small beans compared to a contract, it may matter to some younger guys and I know some guys love getting free crap.

    TerpPride

  • jdillon1 said...

    I don't think it's over the top. The idea that "everyone else does it" shouldn't absolve the Saints.

    I'm all for hard hits and whatever, but encouraging cheap shots is plain outrageous. You're messing with someone's career, job security, health, family, the list goes on. Get that shit outta here.

    Yeah I agree. You gotta understand that Goodell is running a multi billion dollar industry. If the population starts thinking that players are going out there trying to purposefully injure other people, thats going to be a huge turn off to a good chunk of the viewership. Also you can say Payton didn't deserve a year suspension, but it needed to happen. You have to make sure this is going to stop here, that's why you give the pseudo death penalty. Make it as harsh as possible so it stops here. I mean the dude got emails from Williams the day of the game saying who they had a bounty on. Seems like he should be held the most responsible, he is the head coach after all.

    kameterp

  • HoopheadVII said...

    I think it's harsh, but not over the top.

    1) There are explicit rules against paying non-contract bonuses

    2) They gave incentives to injure other players

    3) Payton lied about his knowledge of the program, ignored instructions to end the program, later denied that it still existed, and instructed his coaches to lie to the NFL about the existence of the program.

    This went on for 3 years.

    yeah, I suspect the details are worse than what some people want to believe.

    TerpPride

  • Anyone who thinks Goodell is bad for football because he is drunk with power should consider the alternative (Selig, Bud). I'd *much* rather have an independent jackass than a do-nothing puppet.

    fletchterpz

  • Once again, proof that the coverup is worse than the crime.

    GunnerOne 84

  • GunnerOne 84 said...

    Once again, proof that the coverup is worse than the crime.

    those $10K for "knock outs" and "$_K" for "Cart Offs" are damning as well.

    TerpPride

  • kameterp said...

    Yeah I agree. You gotta understand that Goodell is running a multi billion dollar industry. If the population starts thinking that players are going out there trying to purposefully injure other people, thats going to be a huge turn off to a good chunk of the viewership. Also you can say Payton didn't deserve a year suspension, but it needed to happen. You have to make sure this is going to stop here, that's why you give the pseudo death penalty. Make it as harsh as possible so it stops here. I mean the dude got emails from Williams the day of the game saying who they had a bounty on. Seems like he should be held the most responsible, he is the head coach after all.

    Payton got an email from a third party to tell Williams who the third party wanted to put the bounty on.

    HoopheadVII

  • One issue I haven't heard being discussed is, I'm pretty sure these players all committed multiple felonies. Assault, battery, tax evasion, conspiracy to commit a felony, etc... I'd be least surprised to see the IRS come calling if they can get proof of 5/6 figure bounties.

    Titanterp ●

  • TerpPride said...

    The concept has been around...we did it in HS and most colleges do it. It's different when you're talking about money though.

    And that's where I agree with you...it's silly to have to motivate these guys. and while the "bonuses" can be small beans compared to a contract, it may matter to some younger guys and I know some guys love getting free crap.

    in lax, we called them "remember me" hits.

    ravenlunatic

  • TerpPride said...

    yeah, I suspect the details are worse than what some people want to believe.

    The NFL's press release goes into significant detail:

    NFL announces management discipline in Saints' 'bounty' matter | NFL.com

    Commissioner Roger Goodell notified the New Orleans Saints Wednesday of the discipline that will be imposed on team management for violations of the NFL rule that endangered player safety over a three-year period.

    www.nfl.com

    HoopheadVII

  • HoopheadVII said...

    The NFL's press release goes into significant detail:

    Commissioner Goodell stated that the actions of the individuals disciplined today violated league rules and constituted conduct detrimental to the league and players. He said the existence of a pay-for-performance/bounty program undermined the integrity of the game. The violations were compounded by the failure of Coach Payton to supervise the players and coaches and his affirmative decision starting in 2010 (a) not to inquire into the facts concerning the pay-for-performance/bounty program even though he was aware of the league's inquiries both in 2010 and 2012; (b) to falsely deny that the program existed; (c) to encourage the false denials by instructing assistants to "make sure our ducks are in a row;" and (d) to ignore instructions from the league office and club ownership to ensure that no such program existed.

    I mean c'mon - they had the program in place, Payton pretty much told the league to go fuck themselves and tried to have the organization cover it up.

    ...and people think that a 1 year suspension is harsh? Most people in other industries would have been fired and blackballed from their industry had they done that.

    ravenlunatic

  • ravenlunatic said...

    in lax, we called them "remember me" hits.

    lol play a real sport commie

    Overlord NJT ●

  • kameterp said...

    I don't believe this "tradition" stuff at all. I've heard more and more former players come out from the 60's 70's and 80's saying that this never happened during their days of playing. Playing professional football is like a brotherhood, and you end up becoming really close to a lot of opposing players. They said they would never imagine doing something like this.

    I honestly think it's been something that just developed over the past 10 years to get these new version of self-centered "superstar" players, who lack motivation/only care about money, get into the game more.

    What I have heard the exact opposite. They all said there was always rewards for big hits, sacks, fumbles, INT's.

    Did you see how those old guys played they clothes lined each other for shits sake. If you play football you try to hit the other guy as hard as you can all the time. If he doesnt get up he doesnt get up. As long as it was a clean hit you are taught to always find someone to hit. If that happens to be the QB then so be it. NFL players should just all have to sign a waiver that they can never sue and understand the risk involved with playing football.

    By the way (God)Dell is a joke. He will ruin football eventually.

    This post was edited by jgdomino on 3/21/2012 at 5:13 PM

    Pic Sigs are for losers.

    jgdomino

  • Cam Newton is going to torture the saints way more than goodell ever could for this...also if you read the report it is obvious goodell is going to shit all over jonathan vilma with great audacity.

    This post was edited by BrotherAbstract on 3/21/2012 at 5:16 PM

    BrotherAbstract ●

  • chivas said...

    Warren Sapp saying Jeremy Shockey is the snitch who told the NFL.

    Yep, time for the songbirds and jailhouse snitches to talk and throw others under 'Jerome Bettis'. This is far from over as they investigate individual players.

    BS19

  • ravenlunatic said...

    in lax, we called them "remember me" hits.

    Haven't watched a game in over 20 years, have you? They took real hitting out of lacrosse that long ago!!!!

    BS19

  • Goodell is an absolute clown. Have fun suspending the entire league when details of all the other teams' bounty systems start to come out.

    Someone needs to curb his power right away. He's basically just doing whatever the hell he wants without answering to anyone.

    MuddyLake

  • jgdomino said...

    NFL players should just all have to sign a waiver that they can never sue and understand the risk involved with playing football.

    Agreements to waive liability that are not in the public's interest are not enforceable.

    letsgoterps ●

  • BS19 said...

    Haven't watched a game in over 20 years, have you? They took real hitting out of lacrosse that long ago!!!!

    I still watch and love the sport. I did play competitively just over 20 years ago...and you're right, the game has gotten to be a lot more finesse and gone away from bonecrushing hits...I also probably should have said that "they" called them remember me hits. I was more than often the recipient of said hits.

    ravenlunatic

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