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Pujols Insulted

  • People are really being blinded by the dollar figures here. If you're current company told you how great of a job you did and how they wanted you to be a lifetime employee and then offered you a 5 year contract at X amount when other companies were willing to play you X amount (or close enough to it) for 10 years I'm sure you'd be a little insulted too.

    Just because they offered 130M doesn't mean it wasn't an insult.

    jsh

  • BCiB said...

    Clearly. Which is ludicrous.

    Not really. It's just a huge back-ended signing bonus, essentially.

    oralterpitude43

  • jsh said...

    People are really being blinded by the dollar figures here. If you're current company told you how great of a job you did and how they wanted you to be a lifetime employee and then offered you a 5 year contract at X amount when other companies were willing to play you X amount (or close enough to it) for 10 years I'm sure you'd be a little insulted too.

    Just because they offered 130M doesn't mean it wasn't an insult.

    But, to shift analogies, this is like being offended that your parents get you a computer for your 16th instead of a car. The rich Cali family can afford a BMW for their teenager, but the midwest family can only spring for a really nice laptop.

    It's immature to take offense at someone sticking to a budget.

    oralterpitude43

  • The Cardinals were saying one thing though (Cardinal 4 Life) and doing something completely different (5/135M). Their spring training offer was 9/195M. If they were willing to spend 26M for 5 years why didn't they just add that on to their initial offer? Why not make him a 9/215M offer? Pay 26M the first five years and then back it down to 21M the final four years?

    jsh

  • I agree that STL didn't live up to their talk. First of all, as mentioned, they should have gotten the deal done last year. then they come out with a contract shorter than Holliday's and I could see AP being insulted. Forget midwesterners or comparisons to money teams, if you wanted him enough, you'd make the numbers work. and length of contract is as important as per year$$.

    forget that his wife added emphasis by bringing God into it, that's her belief system. You remove that from the discussion and you still have grounds to be insulted if you're AP.

    TerpPride

  • jsh said...

    Don't you think it's insulting for a team to offer you 5 years at 26M when other teams are going to offer you 25M for 10 years? Were the Cardinals going to offer him another 5/130M contract when the first one ran out?

    it wasn't a competitive offer but definitely not an insult... the Cardinals would have been foolish to give him more than a 5-6 yr deal imo

    FirstCoastTerp

  • FirstCoastTerp said...

    it wasn't a competitive offer but definitely not an insult... the Cardinals would have been foolish to give him more than a 5-6 yr deal imo

    Then they should've been honest with Albert and with St. Louis and told him they weren't going to offer him more than X years. The truth is that they had no problems signing him to a 9 year contract in ST and they had no problem signing him to a 9 year deal a week ago since they eventually increased their offer.

    St. Louis' offer was comparable to Baltimore's offer to Tex. Less years, equal money. That's not going to cut it and both St. Louis and Baltimore knew it and if they didn't then they were idiots.

    jsh

  • St. Louis is not run by idiots. They didn't want to have $25MM-$30MM of their payroll tied up to a late 30s/early 40s player. They are happy he signed elsewhere.

    As for being a Cardinal "for life", signing a 5 year deal now does not preclude him from signing another deal when this 5-year deal is up.

    I just think "insulted" is a silly term in this instance. It is a business negotiation where the difference was in the offered term. But by the same measure, the Cardinals know Pujols and how he thinks, and knew he would take ridiculous offense. If they wanted to sign him they would have. They didn't want to commit to a 9-10 year deal.

    As for the Angels, even if their payroll was in the $180MM range, and historically I don't think it has ever been close to the Yankees/Red Sox/Old Mets stratosphere (but maybe that will change with the new Fox TV deal), having 20% of that payroll in dead money DOES have a material effect. I just don't see a scenario where this is not a bad signing.

    BCiB

  • The Angels just signed a 3 billion dollar TV deal to cover the next 15 or 20 years. They'll be fine.

    bkmalik

  • It's a good move by the cards to let him go. They got two world series' out of him. Time to blow it up, hang on to the young pieces and move on.

    AlphaOmega said... im sorry i was confusing...your "Superbowl" was the Redskins losing since you know that the Ravens cant win it all.

    TheHugeManatee

  • TheHugeManatee said...

    It's a good move by the cards to let him go. They got two world series' out of him. Time to blow it up, hang on to the young pieces and move on.

    why do the Cards need to blow it up? Team has great veteran pitching and good young hitting and plays in what should be a crappy division. Gate revenues are going to be insane again this year.

    BCiB

  • well they essentially already chose to not resign one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Carpenter is 36, Jackson is going somewhere else and Westbrook is getting old and in decline. They have Garcia and Wainwright coming off tommy john. They have virtually nothing in the infield other than Freese. I highly doubt Berkman comes close to the numbers he put up this past year.

    This post was edited by TheHugeManatee on 12/13/2011 at 1:41 PM

    AlphaOmega said... im sorry i was confusing...your "Superbowl" was the Redskins losing since you know that the Ravens cant win it all.

    TheHugeManatee

  • dena_terp_fan said...

    Albert Pujols' wife on why he did not re-sign with St. Louis.

    She indicated the key moment was the Cardinals' initial offer of five years and $130 million. "When you have somebody say 'We want you to be a Cardinal for life' and only offer you a five-year deal, it kind of confused us," Diedre Pujols said. "Well, we got over that insult and felt like Albert had given so much of himself to baseball and into the community ... we didn't want to go through this again."

    Maybe she doesn't realize the Cardinal's offer works out to $26 million per year and the 10-year deal from the Angels averaged $25.4 million per year.

    If any of you business owners on the board would like to insult me to the tune of $26 million per year I'm willing to listen to your offer.

    Whole article

    I know I'm about to get downvoted for this as well, as clearly I'm in the minority. But I completely agree with this sentiment as well.

    I totally understand the counterarguments. This is his reality, etc.

    But something is wrong in our world when a guy is getting offered $26 Million a YEAR to play a game. And he's complaining about it.

    All of us, as well as 99.9999999% of the population will be incredibly lucky to ever see $26 Million. And this guy is getting that to play a game. I'm sorry. But at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut about it.

    This post was edited by alexterp on 12/13/2011 at 1:56 PM

    alexterp

  • alexterp said...

    I know I'm about to get downvoted for this as well, as clearly I'm in the minority. But I completely agree with this sentiment as well.

    I totally understand the counterarguments. This is his reality, etc.

    But something is wrong in our world when a guy is getting offered $26 Million a YEAR to play a game. And he's complaining about it.

    All of us, as well as 99.9999999% of the population will be lucky to ever see $26 Million. And this guy is getting that to play a game. I'm sorry. But at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut about it.

    Are you so good at something that you would generate hundreds of millions of dollars for a company over a course of 5-10 years?

    AlphaOmega said... im sorry i was confusing...your "Superbowl" was the Redskins losing since you know that the Ravens cant win it all.

    TheHugeManatee

  • TheHugeManatee said...

    well they essentially already chose to not resign one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Carpenter is 36, Jackson is going somewhere else and Westbrook is getting old and in decline. They have Garcia and Wainwright coming off tommy john. They have virtually nothing in the infield other than Freese. I highly doubt Berkman comes close to the numbers he put up this past year.

    They certainly have enough to compete in the central and with their staff that gives them a shot in the playoffs. I think Berkman still has plenty in the tank and it should be an upgrade getting him out of RF. I think they made a mistake signing Furcal instead of Rollins but if they can get Beltran they should be fine. Shelby Miller moving up the farm system and could be in the big leagues this summer.

    jsh

  • alexterp said...

    I know I'm about to get downvoted for this as well, as clearly I'm in the minority. But I completely agree with this sentiment as well.

    I totally understand the counterarguments. This is his reality, etc.

    But something is wrong in our world when a guy is getting offered $26 Million a YEAR to play a game. And he's complaining about it.

    All of us, as well as 99.9999999% of the population will be incredibly lucky to ever see $26 Million. And this guy is getting that to play a game. I'm sorry. But at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut about it.

    If you are literate and have internet access you're living way better than a huge chunk of the world's population. Want to give your employer a discount if they're giving you less than you can get across the street?

    sgii

  • TheHugeManatee said...

    Are you so good at something that you would generate hundreds of millions of dollars for a company over a course of 5-10 years?

    Of course not, haha.

    I get the sentiment. I've always thought it was dumb that owners would keep that money, for example.

    I think it's a complaint against sports and celebrity culture in general. Should we really care that much about some guy (who clearly doesn't actually care about any city), who can hit a ball really far with a stick?

    I also think that AT SOME POINT it becomes ridiculous. What if we're allowing baseball players even more wealth and power? What if we say baseball players don't have to pay taxes? Or that they automatically get a minimum of $1 Billion/year. AT SOME POINT, it becomes ridiculous, right? I think we can all agree with that. I think getting $26 million and having the gall to complain is pretty bloody ridiculous.

    I know people laugh at this and that it's a sports board. But the point is really a legitimate one. And I love sports as much as the next guy.

    This post was edited by alexterp on 12/13/2011 at 2:11 PM

    alexterp

  • Yea, your beef should be with society and the fact that Americans spend a bunch of money to watch men hit balls with sticks. We're the ones who set the market.

    AlphaOmega said... im sorry i was confusing...your "Superbowl" was the Redskins losing since you know that the Ravens cant win it all.

    TheHugeManatee

  • jsh said...

    They certainly have enough to compete in the central and with their staff that gives them a shot in the playoffs. I think Berkman still has plenty in the tank and it should be an upgrade getting him out of RF. I think they made a mistake signing Furcal instead of Rollins but if they can get Beltran they should be fine. Shelby Miller moving up the farm system and could be in the big leagues this summer.

    i guess my point is that it wasn't a bad idea to let pujols go. they certainly got an outstanding return on him while he was there.

    AlphaOmega said... im sorry i was confusing...your "Superbowl" was the Redskins losing since you know that the Ravens cant win it all.

    TheHugeManatee

  • the insult has nothing to do with comparison to the average wage earner-it concerns the Card's offer versus that of the Angels and other clubs. The home team often tries to use that familiar, existing relationship with the club, teammates, the community as a factor in lowballing-and often it doesn't work. The Cards talked about a lifetime contract and offered 5 years...they offered Holliday 7 and isn't he the same age? Did MH get an afterlife contract?

    BTW, the wife was interviewed on a faith based radio show, one where she is friends with the host and in which she donates money. her talking about God seems to be in context with that type of situation.

    TerpPride

  • alexterp said...

    I know I'm about to get downvoted for this as well, as clearly I'm in the minority. But I completely agree with this sentiment as well.

    I totally understand the counterarguments. This is his reality, etc.

    But something is wrong in our world when a guy is getting offered $26 Million a YEAR to play a game. And he's complaining about it.

    All of us, as well as 99.9999999% of the population will be incredibly lucky to ever see $26 Million. And this guy is getting that to play a game. I'm sorry. But at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut about it.

    And 99.999999% of us will never be able to do anything as well as he plays baseball

    neal990

  • You have too many 9s...I did the math, you stated that there's only 7 people in the world that will ever see $26 million (not make in a year)

    Neal's statement is much more factual

    This post was edited by JDawgBBall9 on 12/13/2011 at 2:29 PM

    "WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE girl is providing the rallying cry for the 2013 O's." ~dh2k3

    JDawgBBall9

  • alexterp said...

    All of us, as well as 99.9999999% of the population will be incredibly lucky to ever see $26 Million. And this guy is getting that to play a game. I'm sorry. But at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut about it.

    Unlike the rest of us 99%, Pujols has media asking him why he left St. Louis. I'm sure the first few times it's pretty easy to be polite but when it gets asked for the 1,000th time I bet it starts to get annoying. Probably also annoying to turn on the TV and see your jersey being burned and have to read columns on how you're a prima donna and a jackass. Most of this because you simply took a better offer and the club that everyone saying all these heinous things about you roots for lowballed you and is playing you off as the bad guy in the negotiations.

    jsh

  • It would have been insulting to any rationale person for AP to take the cards deal over the angel's offer. The two are not even comparable, even the cards face saving last offer.

    TerpPride

  • verb: to treat with insolence, indignity, or contempt : affront; also : to affect offensively or damagingly
    noun: : a gross indignity

    not an insult.

    BCiB