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Orioles v. Tigers Thread

  • Thursday, 7:05pm MASN2HD
    Zach Britton (10-10, 4.28 ERA) v. Jacob Turner (0-1, 7.45 ERA)

    Friday, 7:05pm MASN2HD
    Alfredo Simon (4-9, 4.96 ERA) v. Rick Porcello (14-9, 4.79 ERA)

    Saturday, 7:05pm MASNHD
    Jeremy Guthrie (9-17, 4.28 ERA) v. Justin Verlander (24-5, 2.29 ERA)

    Sunday, 1:05pm MASN2HD
    TBA v. Brad Penny (10-11, 5.31 ERA)

    jsh ●

  • WW?W

    I feel a sweep is in play.

    bkmalik

  • Freaking Rays. So mad they got swept by the Yanks. We did our part.

    charmcity3131 ●

  • It's going to be tough deciding between the O's and college football saturday night. Don't often get to watch Verlander and he'll probably throw a no-hitter.

    jsh ●

  • charmcity3131 said...

    Freaking Rays. So mad they got swept by the Yanks. We did our part.

    They play the Yankees again today.

    Rays or Angels. Either one works for me. Both just 2.5 games back.

    fearthenoodle

  • Lefties are now 4-46 against Clay Rapada on the season. He's the kind of guy I'd love to be able to keep on the team next year, but the rest of the staff has to be better if they are going to roster a guy who can never, ever face a RH hitter.

    fearthenoodle

  • Orioles designated hitter Vladimir Guerrero is on the precipice of becoming the major league’s all-time hits leader from the Dominican Republic, and he hopes to build on that record for another couple seasons.

    Heading into Friday’s series in Detroit, Guerrero has 2,583 hits, three behind the all-time Dominican leader Julio Franco, who was Guerrero’s teammate for two years in winter league ball.

    Orioles Insider: Guerrero chasing Dominican hits record; wants to play few more years - Baltimore Orioles: Schedule, news, analysis and opinion on baseball at Camden Yards - baltimoresun.com

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/09/guerrero_chasing_dominican_hit.html

    weblogs.baltimoresun.com

    jsh ●

  • This series and then the Sawx and then I'm done with baseball this year. F the playoffs.

    Would be nice to have a winning record for the month.

    StoneTheCrow

  • fearthenoodle said...

    Lefties are now 4-46 against Clay Rapada on the season. He's the kind of guy I'd love to be able to keep on the team next year, but the rest of the staff has to be better if they are going to roster a guy who can never, ever face a RH hitter.

    Rapada- LOOGY
    Jim Johnson- SU/CL
    Kevin Gregg- Equipment Manager
    Pedro Strop- MR
    Then maybe about 2 out of Berken, Bergesen, Jakubauskas, and Jo-Jo Reyes

    That's only 3 definite relievers out of about 7 or 8 spots the O's need. And even if O's keep Bergesen and Berken in bullpen, still would need major overhaul at some point. Then again, the starting rotation isn't much prettier ( Britton, Hunter, Guthrie.... and...)

    I think it's kind of unrespectful- Ovie

    terpskinsfan21 ●

  • Simon/Hunter/Tillman are all bullpen candidates in my opinion. There's a couple of guys in the minors who have a shot as well.

    jsh ●

  • I think Hunter is as close to a lock for the rotation as you can get right now (along with Britton, Arrieta, Guthrie). He's made 10 starts now, and while he's not been great very often, he's pitched into the 7th inning 8 of the last 9 times and went 6 full in the other. Those kind of innings are very valuable.

    I think Simon ends up in the bullpen for sure. Other names not mentioned yet:

    1. Patton- he's been pretty good out of the pen. Great K/BB rate (21/3) in 26 IP. Can go multiple innings. I think he makes the roster pretty easily next year.

    2. Zach Phillips- Another lefty. He and Rapada won't both make the team. Lefties are only 2-15 against him in his limited time since coming up. It looks like he might be able to hold his own a little better against righties than Rapada. And he is 6 years younger than Rapada.

    fearthenoodle

  • Also, I really like Strop. I'm trying to figure out why Texas sent him down earlier this year. It looks like he made the OD roster, and then he only gave up 1 run over 10 appearances through May 1. His walk number wasn't great, but he'd only allowed 2 hits. Then he gave up 3 runs in one inning on May 3rd and wasn't heard from again until the O's added him.

    His walk numbers have been much better and his stuff looks pretty damn good.

    fearthenoodle

  • jsh said...

    Simon/Hunter/Tillman are all bullpen candidates in my opinion. There's a couple of guys in the minors who have a shot as well.

    I think it would be ridiculous to put Hunter in the bullpen. Like FTN said, need those innings because there won't be 8 elite options in the bullpen like the Braves have for example.

    And FTN, I definitely also agree that Patton should get a fair shot in Spring Training. Don't know how I forgot Arrieta when discussing starters too.

    1.) Britton
    2.) Guthrie
    3.) Arrieta
    4.) Hunter
    5.) Matusz

    Guess that means Tillman is gone and Simon goes to bullpen. Too early to talk trade with Mariners for King Felix?

    I think it's kind of unrespectful- Ovie

    terpskinsfan21 ●

  • fearthenoodle said...

    I think Hunter is as close to a lock for the rotation as you can get right now (along with Britton, Arrieta, Guthrie). He's made 10 starts now, and while he's not been great very often, he's pitched into the 7th inning 8 of the last 9 times and went 6 full in the other. Those kind of innings are very valuable.

    I think Simon ends up in the bullpen for sure. Other names not mentioned yet:

    1. Patton- he's been pretty good out of the pen. Great K/BB rate (21/3) in 26 IP. Can go multiple innings. I think he makes the roster pretty easily next year.

    2. Zach Phillips- Another lefty. He and Rapada won't both make the team. Lefties are only 2-15 against him in his limited time since coming up. It looks like he might be able to hold his own a little better against righties than Rapada. And he is 6 years younger than Rapada.

    Patton is out of options so he's making the roster unless he's terrible beyond words.

    PoorMike

  • terpskinsfan21 said...

    I think it would be ridiculous to put Hunter in the bullpen. Like FTN said, need those innings because there won't be 8 elite options in the bullpen like the Braves have for example.

    And FTN, I definitely also agree that Patton should get a fair shot in Spring Training. Don't know how I forgot Arrieta when discussing starters too.

    1.) Britton 2.) Guthrie 3.) Arrieta 4.) Hunter 5.) Matusz

    Guess that means Tillman is gone and Simon goes to bullpen. Too early to talk trade with Mariners for King Felix?

    ah, if the Os need to upgrade anything, it is starting pitching. I'd be surprised if they did not. So if they add a decent starter, then by default Hunter may end up in the bullpen. They will need starting depth, so he will get his chance next year either way.

    As horrible as Matusz has been this year, based on his history wouldn't he have a higher upside than Hunter? i.e., hard to believe that trading Matusz would only get you a Koji ...

    BCiB ●

  • Yeah I didn't mean all three of Simon/Hunter/Tillman were going to the bullpen, just that I'd put them into the bullpen if they don't make the rotation.

    jsh ●

  • jsh said...

    Yeah I didn't mean all three of Simon/Hunter/Tillman were going to the bullpen, just that I'd put them into the bullpen if they don't make the rotation.

    So anyone hear anything on Tillman, such as a revision on what he is projected to be?

    I can't say I approve of the practice of sticking failed starters in the bullpen. More often or not, the ERA goes down but not enough to make someone a "good" reliever.. Hasn't worked with Bergesen. That said, I would give him another shot in the rotation because he is till plenty young.

    I think it's kind of unrespectful- Ovie

    terpskinsfan21 ●

  • I'd like to see the stats that back up your "more often or not" comment. Most relievers are failed starters. Just because you can't cut it in the rotation doesn't mean you can't cut it in the bullpen.

    The Orioles should give Tillman every opportunity to make it in the rotation out of ST. If he doesn't though, I think they should move him to the pen. Tillman's made 54 starts at Norfolk and for most of that span he's been dominant. I'm not sure he's going to suddenly realize his potential during his fourth year in Norfolk.

    jsh ●

  • BCiB said...

    As horrible as Matusz has been this year, based on his history wouldn't he have a higher upside than Hunter? i.e., hard to believe that trading Matusz would only get you a Koji ...

    Without a doubt his upside is way higher than Hunter's. But I think there is a decent shot that Matusz might start at AAA while Hunter is in the rotation.

    1. FA
    2. Guthrie
    3. Britton
    4. Hunter
    5. Arrieta

    Bullpen
    CL Johnson
    SU Strop
    LOOGY Rapada
    MR Simon
    MR Patton
    LR Berken
    Garbage time Gregg

    fearthenoodle

  • jsh said...

    I'd like to see the stats that back up your "more often or not" comment. Most relievers are failed starters. Just because you can't cut it in the rotation doesn't mean you can't cut it in the bullpen.

    The Orioles should give Tillman every opportunity to make it in the rotation out of ST. If he doesn't though, I think they should move him to the pen. Tillman's made 54 starts at Norfolk and for most of that span he's been dominant. I'm not sure he's going to suddenly realize his potential during his fourth year in Norfolk.

    Well, for the record, I'm talking about MLB starters. I don't care about minor leagues because there is more experimentation down there for all players.

    1.) I can't think of too many closers who use to start. The top 10 leaders in saves pretty much have 0 career starts, with the lone exception being Joel Hanrahan. I'm not going to argue that the closer is always a team's best relief pitcher, but it is usually indicative.

    2.) Kyle McClellan had a 4.21 ERA as a starter this year, 3.6 as a reliever. I consider this a typical drop

    3.) Jakubauskas- 6.91 ERA as starter, 4.91 as a reliever

    I can find more if I really thought about it, but my point is that I don't see Tillman helping as a closer or setup-man any more than I see him as a #2 starter

    I think it's kind of unrespectful- Ovie

    terpskinsfan21 ●

  • terpskinsfan21 said...

    Well, for the record, I'm talking about MLB starters. I don't care about minor leagues because there is more experimentation down there for all players.

    1.) I can't think of too many closers who use to start. The top 10 leaders in saves pretty much have 0 career starts, with the lone exception being Joel Hanrahan. I'm not going to argue that the closer is always a team's best relief pitcher, but it is usually indicative.

    2.) Kyle McClellan had a 4.21 ERA as a starter this year, 3.6 as a reliever. I consider this a typical drop

    3.) Jakubauskas- 6.91 ERA as starter, 4.91 as a reliever

    I can find more if I really thought about it, but my point is that I don't see Tillman helping as a closer or setup-man any more than I see him as a #2 starter

    Mariano Rivera, Jim Johnson, Heath Bell, David Hernandez shrug

    I do appreciate you using Chris Jakubauskas and Brad Bergesen as failed starters who also struggled in the pen. I don't think either one of them are comparable to Tillman. I also don't think a 27 inning sample size really proves a point about McClellan.

    jsh ●

  • bell was never a starter

    screamin_jay ●

  • Or not. fail.

    This post was edited by SalisburyTerpO on 9/22/2011 at 6:44 PM

    SalisburyTerpO

  • Ah...read the wrong column there. Regardless, there are plenty of failed starters in MLB bullpens. If a guy can't hack it in the starting rotation it only makes sense to see what he can do in the pen where 1) he only has to go through the lineup once and 2) he only has to rely on two pitches.

    I'd hate to give up on a guy without doing everything possible to find him a useful role.

    jsh ●

  • SalisburyTerpO said...

    Lets see...go to Terps football game then go over to Bmore for O's game? Don't mind if I do...think it'll be easy to walk up and pick up tix for that game saturday?

    They're in Detroit this weekend.

    jsh ●

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