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I don't know or care if he's guilty. The only thing that caught my attention about this is the ridiculous excuses some people are making. For example, how does the following sentence apply to the collector but not Braun: "considering his career and reputation is on the line here, it's not a surprise he would go into denial mode." Also, isn't every player clean up to the point that they cheat? The previous clean tests don't really mean anything. Manny was clean until he got caught cheating, wasn't he?
I'm not sure if you've had to take a piss test before, but it would be pretty obvious if someone tampered with the package containing the sample. It was sealed multiple times with Braun's signature placed on the package after it was sealed. What does the collector have to gain by tampering with sample anyway? Apparently he's done this hundreds of times and it's never been an issue. And the theory that a sample stored at room temperature can produce an absurdly high steroid level seems even more ridiculous to me.
In a statement Tuesday, Dino Laurenzi Jr., who handled Ryan Braun’s urine sample last October, said it was established protocol to take samples home if they could not be mailed immediately.
Yeah again as I said in my last post, I don't know how you can take one side as fact and not the other. There's clearly a lot of grey area in this case and to definitively say he is 100% guilty or 100% innocent is pretty ludicrous. Its as expected for both sides to deny.
Why would the collector do that when it wasn't the procedure that wss agreed to?
The only logical response is that the sample was mishandled and therefore it ceases to be relevant.
But people will believe what they want.
So he was supposed to take it home and keep it on his desk?
I think this interesting:
In sports governed by the World Anti-Doping Code — the Olympic Games, for instance — the athlete would have to prove not only a breach of protocol, but that the breach caused the positive result. So under the rules of the Olympics of the Tour De France, etc., Braun would not have won his appeal.
I've always contended that if someone wants to dissect whether the basement was sufficiently "cool", that's fair. Simply taking it home was definitely appropriate, yes (according to the rules that had been agreed to).
How exactly was it mishandled again?
it wasn't mishandled. the sample did not degrade, and the sample was properly sealed. I assume they will tighten the rulebook going forward which is appropiate. They will need to test before games going forward on weekdays, lol.
and really, it seems that you could challenge ANY testing that was sent overnight to the lab on a similar "chain of custody" argument. right? why couldn't you argue that a sample sent Tuesday afternoon was out of sight until the Wed am delivery? who is to say what happened to the sample in the fed ex plane or the fed ex warehouse/truck. what is the difference exactly?
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BCiB 2 years ago
Truthfully, I'm not sure that there is much grey are a here.
What exactly is being disputed? It sounds like everyone agrees on what happened and the arbitrator made decision irrespective of what the agreement was.
In his press conference, Braun implied that the sample may have been tampered with, but he never disputed that when it counted during the hearing. It was sealed in his presence and the seals were intact when it got to the lab. That's the closest thing I've heard to a dispute and he only mentioned that after the fact (and even then it was specious).
I haven't really heard anyone argue about the actual facts of this case.
For the record, I'm not betting my life on him being a willful cheater...and I do sympathize with the fact that this should not have been made public. However, I don't like that he's been a disingenuous at times as well, and some people are eating it up.
Your point being? Last I checked Braun isn't chasing Lance Armstrong up a mountain. He plays Major League Baseball and is bound by their rules and testing program.
The facts are simple. The panel that reviewed this case determined that the sample was improperly collected/stored/transferred to the lab for testing. Therefore, the sample is considered void. The end. It's not rocket science.
There are rules to the testing program, the rules were not followed. Everything else is hot air to continue the neverending stupidity that is the steroids in baseball argument.
This post was edited by bkmalik 2 years ago
MLB is saying that the rules WERE followed and the arbitrator threw it out anyway. If so, I can understand why they are upset. Why even have an agreement with the mlbpa if an arbitrator is going to make up his own standards in deciding the case?
I know MLB contends its part if the agreement that the tester can take thre sample home but have we actually seen that in the agreement? That seems awful shady and leaves a ton of room for errors to be made.
It'll be interesting to see what the arbitrator's written report to everyone will be (hopefully that will be released too since Braun has waived his right to privacy about the hearing according to MLBPA http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/140258083.html).
MLB has stated this was the established procedure and no one has disputed that from what I've read. The head of the USADA (responsible for USA Olympic testing) came on XM last Thursday and said this was S.O.P. for their samples collected on Saturdays. His point was that you'd rather have the collector in control of the sample for those two days than Kinkos.
I'm really not sure what's so shady about it. If you don't trust your collectors, you've got big problems. The samples are sealed in the subject's presence and those seals were no broken according to the lab that received them.
edit: according to this from wsj, Baseball's drug agreement states that "absent unusual circumstances, the specimens should be sent by FedEx to the laboratory on the same day they are collected." If that is really the only language covering this, that is potentially a HUGE loophole because there was simply no way to "send" the sample the day it was collected.
This post was edited by PoorMike 2 years ago
Like most, he's probably guilty, but he has a good legal team and the process is not foolproof. He knows he got away with it, but he worked around the rules. That's fine by me. Make the process airtight going forward.
Thats our MLB!
clearly the point is that the Olympics has a more advanced drug testing procedure with better developed policies. isn't the goal is to catch the cheats while preserving fairness and due process? is a 2-1 decision that appears to have been decided on incorrect grounds unfortunate? it is what it is, the decision has been made, but there does not appear much doubt that Braun cheated and got away with it.
That alone doesn't really trouble me too much - life and sports are not always fair - but the indignant defense and the attacks on the character of the collector are over-the-top in my opinion.
and to be clear, I don't get too worked up over steroids in general. I'm not even convinced they are even bad for your health- take them in moderation and I guess they burn fat and produce lean muscle mass. I wouldn't be surprised if Ripken (and other sacred names) experimented with them during his career. but they are not taken in moderation and kids and players who don't want to take PEDs shouldn't feel pressure to have to use them in order to compete. for those and many other reasons, MLB and the players association jointly decided on a strict drug testing program. so to have the players union support a silly technicality over the intent of the program is a step backwards in my opinion, and perhaps not in either MLB's or the players association's best interests.
MLB and the PA already screwed this issue up beyond repair, so I find this fairly meaningless. If the goal was to catch cheats and preserve "the integrity of the game" then they would have resolved this issue and agreed to a testing policy in the early or mid 90s like the NFL did.
Don Fehr's obsession with holding out on this issue turned out to be hugely detrimental to his constituency and it's costing several notable players their legacies, their HOF chances, and in some cases their post-playing careers.
At the end of the day, it seems pretty clear to me that if the rule/agreement says "you have to send the sample same day" and that wasn't done. So the screw up is on the hands of MLB, not the player. Just another example in the litany of ways in which the MLB office fails to do their job properly. They created this loophole, so they can't be pissed if someone walks through it. That's what happens when you have indecisive goof like Bud Selig running your league. Things get screwed up.
I agree with your take. The only nuance here is that this is supposedly a "joint" drug testing program between MLB and the players, and it really shouldn't be unduly adversarial since both sides apparently thought they needed to prove the players were clean. Getting off on technicalities that are clearly against the intent of the policy is more in line with an adversarial system.
So its crazy to me that the players arbiter always vote "no" and the MLB rep always vote "yes", regardless of the facts of the case. F'ed up relationship.
That's the entire history of the MLB and the MLBPA. It's why Marvin Miller isn't in the HOF still, even though he's the most significant non-player of the last 50 years of baseball history.
I always thought it would have been beyond stupid for someone within baseball to leak this. It does MLB no good for something like this to come out, and especially the guy it just named MVP.
"I'm certain the leak was specific to this case. It does not threaten the confidentiality of the program and as I've said to players who have asked about that, confidentiality is as important as any aspect of this program.
If not for the leak -- which came from someone whom the Braun defense team talked to in preparing their case -- no one would have known that the NL MVP had a positive drug test, appealed the decision and won his appeal. All of that would have remained confidential, as designed in the program.
Major League Baseball Players Association executive director Michael Weiner said Sunday that the leak of Ryan Braun's positive drug test was case-specific and maintained the program does not have an issue with confidentiality.
He should have just called Capt. Jenks.
A former college classmate sued Ryan Braun, saying the Brewers slugger sought his help in fighting a failed drug test, balked on paying him and then disparaged him when asked why their friendship soured.
Ralph Sasson, a Milwaukee law student, said Braun's agent hired him in November 2011 to do legal research aimed at clearing Braun after the left fielder tested positive for steroid use. The agent later asked him to investigate the man who collected Braun's urine, Dino Laurenzi Jr., and Braun personally asked him to prank call two journalists working on a story about the failed test, according to the lawsuit filed last month in Milwaukee County court.
Great re-read. Solid bump.
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