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I am fully on board the HOF Tram bandwagon. Next time Gadget, next time.
Detroit Hustles Harder
Hey, here's a bulletin for you: It happened.
The '90s happened. The first few years of the 21st century happened. I saw it with my very own eyeballs. So did you.
It all happened, on the lush green fields of North America, as crowds roared and cash registers rung. It … all … happened.
And how did it happen? The sport let it happen. That's how.
Bud Selig let it happen. The union let it happen. The owners let it happen. The managers let it happen. The agents let it happen. The media let it happen. Front offices across the continent let it happen. And the players never stepped up to stop it from happening.
It … all … happened. And no one in baseball has ever done anything, even after all these years, to make it un-happen, if you know what I mean.
No records have been stripped. No championships have been stricken from anyone's permanent record. No numbers have been changed. No asterisks have been stamped in any record book.
It … all … happened.
So we need to have a long, serious national conversation, starting right now, about where those events fit into the contours of the Hall of Fame. I'm ready if you are.
The current system of electing players for the Hall of Fame isn't working, and something needs to be done to correct the problem.
Schools that have never made the NCAA Tournament — the 2014 edition http://wp.me/plDgR-1WQ
The thought there has been an on going national conversation about this for years.
Have any former players in the HOF spoke up in favor of Bonds, Clemens......and the rest? Every one I have heard spoke up said no- not in the hall of fame. Al Kaline said he could not sit on the same stage with these jokers.
Jim Palmer with a conditional answer:
I still think at some point, unless you are going to just talk about the morality and the fact that you had the choice between right and wrong and the way you chose if you’re Clemens or Bonds, ultimately those guys are Hall of Famers before starting whatever they did.”
“I’m not happy guys didn’t get in. I would have had no problem because of the resume of Clemens and Bonds from a strict standpoint of what they did on the field before they [were suspected PED users]. I wouldn’t have had a problem at all. But Sammy Sosa?”
Hall of Fame former Oriole Jim Palmer weighs in on Wednesday's announcement that no players were elected to the Hall this year.
Here's a Sun story with quotes from Jim Palmer. He didn't seem to be crying for Bonds and Clemens (and pretty much LOL'ed at Sammy Sosa's candidacy) but did seem supportive of their eventual election. He also blames the union for a lot and pins the failure of guys like Biggio and Piazza to get elected on the collective silence of players on the steroid problem.
“Bonds isn’t going to get any more votes because he was a nice guy. Because he was a jerk. But he was a hell of a player. I’m not sure that should keep you out of the Hal of Fame. If it did, there’d be a lot of guys out. I pitched against [Hall of Fame spitballer] Gaylord Perry who left fingerprints on the ball. And the umpires just laughed. So everybody’s kind of worked the system to some degree, but I think this is more of a statement of what the writers think of the whole culture.”
Look, I'm sure he did it, but is there any evidence about Sosa? Did he ever show up on a list? I can't remember.
pretty sure he was on a list, and was caught with a corked bat on top of it.....
I'm really angry that the old turds have decided that my childhood basically doesn't exist. Bagwell, Biggio, and Piazza - at minimum - not getting in is a joke. The system is broken, but then, hey, Bill James wrote a book 20 years ago saying just that so we're not breaking new ground.
If Moose gets in as a Yankee, where will the O's put his statue? I feel like the CF plaza would be too crowded.
IIRC, Mike Schmidt has said repeatedly that if roids were a thing in his day he probably would have taken them. If for no other reason than the idea of "look for every competitive advantage/don't want to fail to do something the other guy is doing to win" thought process.
Like Tabe says, a set of holier than thou sportswriters has basically decided that everything that happened in baseball from the time I was about 12 until I graduated from college doesn't count.
Palmer is kind of right about one thing. The union under Fehr and the other guy were so hell bent on linking a testing program to competitive bargaining and using it as a negotiating chip that they allowed the situation/perception to paint all players from that era in a negative light. It was protecting the minority of the union membership at the expense of the majority, in the name of money.
What needs to happen is news coming out that Derek Jeter juiced in the 90s. That would either cause the writers to drop all this crap and just vote for the best players OR cause them to burn down the hall of fame.
being caught with a corked bat invalidates every home run he ever hit.
I think they should just change the "criteria" for voting players in. Instead of 500 homeruns being the holy grail it should be 575 or 600. Instead of 3,000 hits it should be 3,500 hits. That would put make it easier to "compare" players who did not juice in the 50s and 60s.
Hits have actually gone down since the steroid era. If anything the 3000 hit milestone needs to be lowered.
We also have advanced metrics that allow us to compare players from different eras.
I am very happy none of those d-bags got in.
I would like to see Morris get in, and then some of the new guys (biggio, etc) but I think it was a great statement that none of the obvious steroid guys got in on the first ballot.
I wonder if Jon Heyman knows he might have helped inadvertently cost Jack Morris a shot at the Hall...
Nate silver on first take right now, in studio with those buffoons and ashanti.
If you put forth the current run environment as an example of what baseball looks like without PEDs, please understand that you are arguing that PEDs caused hitters to be able to make contact more often, not hit the ball over the wall more often when they did make contact. That is what the facts demonstrate. We’re all entitled to our own opinions, but we aren’t entitled to our own facts. And the fact is, the rate of home runs on contacted balls was higher in 2012 than it was in 1998.
They're announcing the Hall of Fame results today, so a lot of people are talking about steroids right now. When people talk about steroids, they talk about
"Maryland football: Where everybody gets hurt and the starting left tackle has an existential crisis."
You are an idiot
I seem to be in the minority here of people who never want to see any of the steroid cheats in. Anti-doping is just something I've always been passionate about. I realize that baseball has a long history of players who cut corners to get an edge, including many players who are already in the Hall. So, I get the argument that it is hypocritical of baseball writers to keep one set of players out, while having others in the Hall who have cheated in different ways.
My question to the Pro Bonds and company camp: In the future, should we just admit all steroid cheats because baseball has had such a long culture of cheating? Personally, I like that the standards that we expect for our hall of famers is evolving. Is it unfair to this current batch of players. You're damn right it is. But, I would like to see a cleaner sport and I think this sends the right message. Again, just my personal opinion, but I'd like to hear about what others would like to see from the Hall of Fame and how they deal with ethical issues like this going forward.
As with the NFL Hall of Fame, they shouldn't consider ethical issues at all.
Which ethics would you consider? modern PEDs not OK, but "greenies" and others back to the 20s are? gambling not OK, but sexual assault, infidelity, foul language are? Gaylord Perry and Derek Jeter "gamesmanship" OK, but corked bats aren't? Where's the line?
Best players from the era should be in, period.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
-- Ben Franklin
The last 24 hours I have seen every show lump Piazza in with Bonds and Clemens. What am I missing here? You can't say he didn't break down, his numbers didn't jump out of nowhere after time in the league.....who knows if he did or didn't but he was in a clubhouse with the guy who ratted out half of major league baseball and his name was not mentioned while a bunch of mets and ex-mets were.
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