Off-Topic

This would be laughable, if it wasn't so tragic and stupid. This gun dealer sounds twice as responsible as any of the idiots at ATF responsible for this mess.

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In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."

Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

I think you misread my post...or perhaps I wasn't very clear and it was horribly phrased. I meant this situation, and the behavior of the feds, is laughable. This gun dealer actually behaved responsibly...far more responsibly than any of the ATF agents associated with this program.

Yeah, that's horribly phrased. Sorry. When I said the gun dealer sounds responsible, I meant he acted responsibly/demonstrated personal accountability...not that he was responsible for this mess.

LOL, I called this months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if this administration was supporting the OWS movement for the purpose of retracting and diminishing 1st amendment rights. It would be tough to prove, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Oh, and the ATF actually did implement the tougher regulation that they used these Fast and Furious sales to justify. They didn't wait for Congress to pass a law widening their authority, they enacted it on their own.

Yes, but they hate the 2nd amendment, too. Thank goodness Obama's so transparent or we may never have known about this, eh.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3".

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

Sounds credible, IMO. Gotta get that refuge off the streets!

For fuck's sake, that's not exactly how/why this happened and wasn't the primary motivation for this moronic policy.

What was the primary reason? Serious question.

The ATF had been allowing guns to "walk" into Mexico since 2006, so I really do not think that a 2010 email is the root of this, more likely another agency trying to spin the incident into its own agenda.

And, real talk here, 500+ long guns in a single purchase? Yeah, outside of wholesale arms dealers, that SHOULD be banned.

Thank you for providing my point for me. A casebook study on how the govt takes the best of intentions and perverts them into unimaginable ends. Iran-Contra is another example. Do you understand why some of us are fearful of Obamacare? I know damn well the intentions may be altruistic, but 20 years from now, do you have any doubt about what govt evolution will turn it into even with the best of intentions? This is why the constitution was set up to limit govt power, and why I am fearful of every foothold the govt gains against the charter.

Its more than a few bureaucrats as Paul suggests, its up and down the line.
Did they set out to circumvent the 2nd and bypass congress? Or was it just a byproduct?

LOL.