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Suque halp thread...educate me on craps

  • Titanterp said...

    Never up your pass line bet above the table minimum unless you have the max odds already. Put it on the odds instead. It is literally giving away money. 10/20 on a 4 pays 50. 15/15 pays 45. You aren't picking up any additional numbers, probability, odds, etc... I see it all the time from new players.

    Yes, and to expand on this, never make a pass line bet after the come out roll. They'll let you do it, but it's a waste of money since you have a much better chance of winning your pass line bet on the come out roll with a 7 than you will by trying to hit the point afterwards.

    Basically, after the come out roll, don't put anything directly on the pass line.

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • TortugaGrande said...

    Pretty sure blackjack has better odds in most casinos, and also it's much easier to play "perfect" blackjack. That said, it's all about entertainment and nothing in vegas is +EV (not counting poker).

    I love 3 card poker. Horrible odds I am sure, but it's the most fun game for me.

    I'd say it's much harder to play "perfect" blackjack, since you basically have to memorize a bunch of stuff (not that hard but still effort), while playing "perfect" craps means doing the exact same thing every time.

    Never played three card poker, but according to this, as long as you're doing "ante & play" (whatever that means) and not "pairplus", it's a worse bet than blackjack and pass line craps, but a better bet than double zero roulette.

    Unavailable

    Either this website doesn't exist or is not currently available.

    wizardofodds.com

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • azitnay said...

    I'd say it's much harder to play "perfect" blackjack, since you basically have to memorize a bunch of stuff (not that hard but still effort), while playing "perfect" craps means doing the exact same thing every time.

    Never played three card poker, but according to this, as long as you're doing "ante & play" (whatever that means) and not "pairplus", it's a worse bet than blackjack and pass line craps, but a better bet than double zero roulette.

    I assume he meant perfect without counting cards. Making every right move (which most dealers will help you with to try to get you to tip them more) but without counting cards still yields better odds than craps, right?

    Canyonerooooo

  • Sweet!LaserTag! said...

    I assume he meant perfect without counting cards. Making every right move (which most dealers will help you with to try to get you to tip them more) but without counting cards still yields better odds than craps, right?

    It depends on the details of course, but I think in general blackjack odds are better than the pass line only, but once you start playing odds then I think craps is better.

    Terpes

  • Terpes said...

    It depends on the details of course, but I think in general blackjack odds are better than the pass line only, but once you start playing odds then I think craps is better.

    For as much time as I spend in casinos I am a complete beginner on all table games....

    Canyonerooooo

  • TortugaGrande said...

    Pretty sure blackjack has better odds in most casinos, and also it's much easier to play "perfect" blackjack. That said, it's all about entertainment and nothing in vegas is +EV (not counting poker).

    I love 3 card poker. Horrible odds I am sure, but it's the most fun game for me.

    Blackjack can be +EV if you're counting, and some video poker machines can be too if you play perfectly, though that's insanely boring.

    Pai gow is my -EV table game of choice. Love that game. I probably haven't even played most of them though (including craps.)

    This post was edited by UMTerp on 4/9/2012 at 9:29 AM

    UMTerp

  • And it's firewalled at my work so I can't look it up, but wizardofodds.com will likely answer all your odds/payback questions for each game.

    UMTerp

  • I'm convinced that you could be +EV at progressive hold em, which I saw at NYNY but seems to be a very limited game.

    Anyways last night at Easter my uncle who randomly dropped out a semester in college and crushed AC before his parents (my grandparents) found out taught me his count....I haven't played blackjack in a casino setting before just because I don't really care to learn all the rules but now I might have to just to try it out

    "WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE girl is providing the rallying cry for the 2013 O's." ~dh2k3

    JDawgBBall9

  • Sweet!LaserTag! said...

    I assume he meant perfect without counting cards. Making every right move (which most dealers will help you with to try to get you to tip them more) but without counting cards still yields better odds than craps, right?

    Even without counting cards, blackjack is harder to play the right move every time. Sure you could ask the dealer on every non-obvious move, but that's kinda lame, and most dealers don't know perfect basic strategy anyway.

    And no, I'm not saying perfect basic strategy is hard to learn. You can probably learn it in less than a week by playing a decent blackjack trainer a few times a day. I'm just saying it's harder than craps, where the perfect mathematical strategy would literally involve doing the exact same thing every time.

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • Terpes said...

    It depends on the details of course, but I think in general blackjack odds are better than the pass line only, but once you start playing odds then I think craps is better.

    Yeah, there are too many variables to make a definitive statement, but for any given set of blackjack rules, a straight craps pass line bet will generally be a worse bet, but adding a certain amount of odds behind it will make it better. There's no guarantee the craps table you're playing on will allow you to put down enough odds to achieve that, though, and the variance is way higher (i.e. you're gonna have much wider swings of being up and down on a craps table than you will just flat-betting on a blackjack table).

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • Sweet!LaserTag! said...

    For as much time as I spend in casinos I am a complete beginner on all table games....

    If you play blackjack at all regularly, it's worth it to learn perfect basic strategy. It's easy to learn, you'll lose less money in the long run, and it's fun to chuckle silently to yourself when someone screws themself over.

    Just don't be the dick that points out every wrong move someone makes. But if someone asks you what to do, it's nice to be able to actually give them the right answer (which often contradicts what the dealer is telling them).

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • UMTerp said...

    And it's firewalled at my work so I can't look it up, but wizardofodds.com will likely answer all your odds/payback questions for each game.

    Yes, he is truly the wizard of all things odds-related. Embrace him.

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • azitnay said...

    Even without counting cards, blackjack is harder to play the right move every time. Sure you could ask the dealer on every non-obvious move, but that's kinda lame, and most dealers don't know perfect basic strategy anyway.

    And no, I'm not saying perfect basic strategy is hard to learn. You can probably learn it in less than a week by playing a decent blackjack trainer a few times a day. I'm just saying it's harder than craps, where the perfect mathematical strategy would literally involve doing the exact same thing every time.

    In many casino gift shops, you can spend $1 on a plastic card that tells you how to play every blackjack hand. You are allowed to use this at the table.

    Terpes

  • JDawgBBall9 said...

    I'm convinced that you could be +EV at progressive hold em, which I saw at NYNY but seems to be a very limited game.

    Progressive Hold'em looks pretty much the same as Texas Hold'em Bonus to me, both of which have over a 10% house edge I believe. If the dealer is lax and doesn't stop you from looking at every other players cards and you have a full table then you might be able to make decisions that make the game +EV.

    RealityGlitch

  • RealityGlitch said...

    Progressive Hold'em looks pretty much the same as Texas Hold'em Bonus to me, both of which have over a 10% house edge I believe. If the dealer is lax and doesn't stop you from looking at every other players cards and you have a full table then you might be able to make decisions that make the game +EV.

    I coulda sworn that at the table I was watching they were dealing heads up to everyone but the dealer

    "WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE girl is providing the rallying cry for the 2013 O's." ~dh2k3

    JDawgBBall9

  • Terpes said...

    In many casino gift shops, you can spend $1 on a plastic card that tells you how to play every blackjack hand. You are allowed to use this at the table.

    Still seems pretty lame to me to be looking at a card every time you get a soft hand or pair. But to each his own.

    eamhokie94: Is your name Nazi in pig Latin?

    azitnay

  • from what ive seen/heard the only way to make money on the table holdem game is to play the sucker bonus bet.

    DaveJuice

  • azitnay said...

    Still seems pretty lame to me to be looking at a card every time you get a soft hand or pair. But to each his own.

    Oh, it certainly is, but it removes the part about learning how to play blackjack perfectly.

    Terpes

  • DaveJuice said...

    from what ive seen/heard the only way to make money on the table holdem game is to play the sucker bonus bet.

    I've never actually played a hand, my theory is based on about 20 minutes of observation on a full table. Clearly I'm very informed on the issue.

    But I'm convinced it can be done if you're comfortable with folding more than everybody else and considering a decent % of antes as sunk costs.

    This post was edited by JDawgBBall9 on 4/9/2012 at 10:17 AM

    "WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE girl is providing the rallying cry for the 2013 O's." ~dh2k3

    JDawgBBall9

  • Whatever gameplan you go with, your first time at the table will fluster you quite a bit. It's a flourish of activities and shit being yelled all over the place. That's why you you should know what you want to do before you get there. Do your best to tune out everyone else.

    For the first 15 minutes or so, you're just trying to establish your rhythm and more importantly, the relationship with the dealers. Make friends with them and they'll get you through the growing pains.

    And if you are winning, tip them.

    classlessthug: I have too much on my plate to worry about the fact that my junk intimidates some needle D undergrad.

    eamhokie94

  • The only time I tried to learn craps I watched a dead table and learned nothing cry

    "WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE girl is providing the rallying cry for the 2013 O's." ~dh2k3

    JDawgBBall9

  • Sweet!LaserTag! said...

    LOL.

    If you are cool with everyone hating you.

    I never understood why this is the case. As long as your celebrating out loud and in people faces, it shouldn't matter.

    blindgaryhomer

  • blindgaryhomer said...

    I never understood why this is the case. As long as your celebrating out loud and in people faces, it shouldn't matter.

    Because degenerate gamblers are assholes

    Major Major

  • eamhokie94 said...

    For the first 15 minutes or so, you're just trying to establish your rhythm and more importantly, the relationship with the dealers. Make friends with them and they'll get you through the growing pains.

    And if you are winning, tip them.

    This. The first time I played I didn't know what I was doing, but I was joking with the dealers. They helped me out immensely.

    lazy

  • UMTerp said...

    Blackjack can be +EV if you're counting, and some video poker machines can be too if you play perfectly, though that's insanely boring.

    Pai gow is my -EV table game of choice. Love that game. I probably haven't even played most of them though (including craps.)

    Love Pai Gow. Extremely social game, especially if you can get a table of all friends late at night. Free drinks + minimum gain/loss = Drunk for cheap.

    "It's just so hard," Greivis said. "It's my heart, my love. Maryland made me who I am."

    RaiseHigh