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Official SCOTUS Thread (Prop 8, DOMA arguments)

  • The Republican appointee will find something unconstitutional. That's how this works. Let's just get it to the SCOTUS and stop this madness.

    PaulUMD

  • bmacumd said...

    I'm certainly in this category, to some extent. I just don't buy the argument "it's not in the constitution" to denounce a federally mandated health care system. The Federal Government exercises plenty of powere over inter/intra state commerce that aren't in the constitution. They hold highway dollars as hostage so states follow their lead with drinking laws. Not many bat an eye at this.

    Just the same as I hate seeing only 35% being STOLEN from estates.

    Our healthcare system needed improvement, nobody would, something totally crappy finally passed w/o being read first. move on.

    fixed

    bbpgtr

  • Judge in Florida strikes down parts of ObamaCare today as well.

    MisterNiceGuy

  • Just saw that. Another nail in its coffin. YAY!!

    SATerp

  • MisterNiceGuy said...

    Judge in Florida strikes down parts of ObamaCare today as well.

    The Republican appointee will find something unconstitutional. That's how this works. Let's just get it to the SCOTUS and stop this madness.

    PaulUMD

  • PaulUMD said...

    The Republican appointee will find something unconstitutional. That's how this works. Let's just get it to the SCOTUS and stop this madness.

    Yeah, I mean this was entirely expected, but it will still be interesting to read the opinion and see how it compares to Hudson's. Everyone knows this will ultimately be decided by the Supremes, but it gives Pubs a small (temporary) PR bump at least, I would think, in their efforts to take apart ObamaCare in the House.

    MisterNiceGuy

  • It will come down to one man, Anthony Kennedy. He will decide if 30 million people lose a chance at health care. Ponder that.

    PaulUMD

  • Link to the opinion:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/013111healthcareruling.pdf

    Unavailable

    Either this website doesn't exist or is not currently available.

    online.wsj.com

    MisterNiceGuy

  • repeal-reschmeal..just join a union and get a waiver

    ConGOTERPS

  • PaulUMD said...

    It will come down to one man, Anthony Kennedy. He will decide if 30 million people lose a chance at health care. Ponder that.

    With an ego like his, I'm sure he will be pondering it. And relishing it.

    MisterNiceGuy

  • My point is the sadness that basically every judge's interpretation of the law here is predictable.

    PaulUMD

  • PaulUMD said...

    My point is the sadness that basically every judge's interpretation of the law here is predictable.

    I don't necessarily agree that it's unfortunate to be able to predict a judge's ruling (on important constitutional issues at least) from the party of the President who appointed him or her. The only democratic check on the federal judiciary (other than impeachment) is the power of the President to nominate and the power of the Senate to confirm its judges. Given that each major political party has a preferred Constitutional philosophy (for simplicity, Republicans = originalism, Democrats = living Constitution), the President and Senate will seek to ensure that the judges they nominate and confirm, respectively, share the Constitutional philosophy of their party.

    MisterNiceGuy

  • The FL case is the more important one because it challenged more than just the mandate

    neal990

  • PaulUMD said...

    It will come down to one man, Anthony Kennedy. He will decide if 30 million people lose a chance at health care. Ponder that.

    Of course life changing issues like this should never be decided by one person, or nine. It should be decided by the people, through their elected representatives. Unfortunately, that wasn't really the case when it went through congress, given Reid, Pelosi and Obama's shameful conduct in railroading the execrable pile of poop that it is without listening to their constituents or the Republicans.

    So, the more meaningful decisions were made by the American people themselves in 2010, and by their representatives now and in years to come, in repealing this odious pile of crap.

    Now join me in overturning Roe v Wade, if your implied disdain for SCOTUS over congress is real. Oh, and lets see less activism by the judiciary. You'll support that, yes? Make them hew to the constitution, yes?

    SATerp

  • "The defendants contend that there are three unique elements of the health
    care market which, when viewed cumulatively and in combination, belie the claim
    that the uninsured are inactive...under this logic, Congress could more directly raise toolow
    wheat prices merely by increasing demand through mandating that every adult
    purchase and consume wheat bread daily, rationalized on the grounds that because
    everyone must participate in the market for food, non-consumers of wheat bread
    adversely affect prices in the wheat market. Or, as was discussed during oral
    argument, Congress could require that people buy and consume broccoli at regular
    intervals, not only because the required purchases will positively impact interstate
    commerce, but also because people who eat healthier tend to be healthier, and are
    thus more productive and put less of a strain on the health care system.....

    the contention that Commerce Clause power should be upheld
    merely because the government and its experts or scholars claim that it is being
    exercised to address a “particularly acute” problem that is “singular[ ],” “special,”
    and “rare” --- that is to say “unique” --- will not by itself win the day. Uniqueness is
    not an adequate limiting principle as every market problem is, at some level and in
    some respects, unique. If Congress asserts power that exceeds its enumerated
    powers, then it is unconstitutional, regardless of the purported uniqueness of the
    context in which it is being asserted

    neal990

  • What a terrible ruling. He says that he's overstepping the normal bounds of severability basically because he wants to.

    "This conclusion is reached with full appreciation for the 'normal rule' that reviewing courts should ordinarily refrain from invalidating more than the unconstitutional part of a statute," Vinison writes, "but non-severability is required based on the unique facts of this case and the particular aspects of the Act. This is not a situation that is likely to be repeated."

    Yeah, it's not likely to be repeated because it's wrong. Oh well. All tied up 2-2 on the federal bench so far. SCOTUS reporter types think it'll finally get there sometime next year.

    PaulUMD

  • PaulUMD said...

    It's all politics. The judges appointed by Dems have upheld the law, and now the first judge appointed by a Pub strikes down the mandate. And if it reaches the Supreme Court, Kagan may have to recuse herself, setting up for another Roberts Court boner in America's ass. Though I wonder, should Kennedy vote to uphold the law and it splits 4-4, how they handle that.

    A majority is required to over turn a lower court decision.

    Obama Care is a bankrupter.

    tagterp

  • tagterp said...

    Obama Care is a bankrupter.

    No its the icing on the cake of bankruptcy. We don't have it enacted yet and we are running trillion dollar deficits.

    sniper_terp

  • SATerp said...

    Of course life changing issues like this should never be decided by one person, or nine. It should be decided by the people, through their elected representatives. Unfortunately, that wasn't really the case when it went through congress, given Reid, Pelosi and Obama's shameful conduct in railroading the execrable pile of poop that it is without listening to their constituents or the Republicans.

    So, the more meaningful decisions were made by the American people themselves in 2010, and by their representatives now and in years to come, in repealing this odious pile of crap.

    This is incoherent.

    "Decisions should be made through elected representives. But elected representatives of 2008 didn't take the minority party's views into account, so that's invalid.

    Therefore, the decision that counts was the 2010 election, as selectively interpreted by me. The subsequent failure of the 2010 Congress to repeal the law also doesn't count.

    Q.E.D."

    YNCMT

  • PaulUMD said...

    It will come down to one man, Anthony Kennedy. He will decide if 30 million people lose a chance at health care. Ponder that.

    Lose a chance? Overstate much? Lots of those 30 million could cancel their cable and cell phone and have lots of choices from basic coverages out there.

    rthhokie92

  • PaulUMD said...

    Yeah, it's not likely to be repeated because it's wrong. Oh well. All tied up 2-2 on the federal bench so far. SCOTUS reporter types think it'll finally get there sometime next year.

    Thats sort of misleading it being 2-2. One of those cases - at least - was a long shot that only really only challenged the law based on 1st Amendment/Constitutional grounds.

    This was by far the "biggest" case of the three. In the end its moot....everyone knows that this was going to the S. Ct. The only thing this does is dispell the notion that people who argued that it was unconsitutional were not complete outliers in making the analysis.

    rthhokie92

  • SATerp said...

    Of course life changing issues like this should never be decided by one person, or nine. It should be decided by the people, through their elected representatives. Unfortunately, that wasn't really the case when it went through congress, given Reid, Pelosi and Obama's shameful conduct in railroading the execrable pile of poop that it is without listening to their constituents or the Republicans.

    So, the more meaningful decisions were made by the American people themselves in 2010, and by their representatives now and in years to come, in repealing this odious pile of crap.

    Now join me in overturning Roe v Wade, if your implied disdain for SCOTUS over congress is real. Oh, and lets see less activism by the judiciary. You'll support that, yes? Make them hew to the constitution, yes?

    What are you talking about? Obama ran on national health care and was elected. Thatnis the mandate from the people. As to your other point, the world would be a much better place if we didn't lsten to the republicans. :)

    parlay

  • Wake me up when a dem appointed judge rules in favor of overturning or a pub appointed judge rules that it's constitutional.

    9/21/2010...RIP Old IMS.

    Kaisersayzo

  • parlay said...

    What are you talking about? Obama ran on national health care and was elected. Thatnis the mandate from the people. As to your other point, the world would be a much better place if we didn't lsten to the republicans. :)

    Well Obama ran on a plan entirely different than the one that ended up coming out of Congress if you want to get technical about it. He couldn't hit Hillary over the head enough with how she wanted a mandate during their debates.

    neal990

  • parlay said...

    What are you talking about? Obama ran on national health care and was elected. Thatnis the mandate from the people. As to your other point, the world would be a much better place if we didn't lsten to the republicans. :)

    So the candidate/party that wins has a "mandate" for every position that's in his/its platform? Even if that's true, then we've got two competing mandates - one from 2008 and one from 2010. The latest one would seem to be the most valid, as it expresses the most current views of the people. There's also anecdotal (the centrality of opposition to ObamaCare in many Pub campaigns) and statistical (20 percent identified health care as most important issue in 2010 compared to 10 percent in 2008) evidence that voters were paying closer attention and voting more directly on health care in 2010 than in 2008.

    MisterNiceGuy