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Indecision 2012 - Obama vs. Romney Thread

  • neal990 said...

    So what exactly are we debating here, im lost.

    pubs suck! no dems suck! pubs suck more! dems suck the most!

    Coltsfan1832644

  • Coltsfan1832 said...

    pubs suck! no dems suck! pubs suck more! dems suck the most!

    You hate Obama! You hated Bush! You hated Clinton! You hated Reagan! You called Taft fat! You called Cleveland fat!

    neal990

  • I don't dislike Obama, I dislike his policies, which, as this Daily Beast writer states, are leading the country down the same disasterous path as my current state, California.

    As California Collapses, Obama Follows Its Lead - The Daily Beast

    Californias slow-motion tragedy could end up as a national one, warns Joel Kotkin.

    www.thedailybeast.com

    Bradleyfan

  • Bradleyfan said...

    I don't dislike Obama, I dislike his policies, which, as this Daily Beast writer states, are leading the country down the same disasterous path as my current state, California.

    nm

    This post was edited by sohlman6 on 4/27/2012 at 4:44 PM

    sohlman6

  • neal990 said...

    You hate Obama! You hated Bush! You hated Clinton! You hated Reagan! You called Taft fat! You called Cleveland fat!

    I heard that politics was this nasty back in 1800 too. Apparently John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and their supporters hated each other a lot despite having no internet and TV.

    Coltsfan1832644

  • Kaisersayzo said...

    I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you tag because I like you too much. I'm also not going to say Obama has an easy road but Mitt Romney is John Kerry on steroids and has done a remarkable job alienating key voting blocks. When he's losing the women's vote by some 15% and the hispanic vote by 30% it doesn't matter what you think of Obama...that is a recipe for a good old fashioned ass kicking. It's not surprising to me that Obama has pissed off the core republican voting block but do you think he cares?

    We could fight all day over policies but in the end that matter very little in what has become a popularity contest and I'd say Romney loses that in a landslide.

    Romney's up 13 with Independents in the latest Fox poll (the most recent one that had any detailed crosstabs). I love how that translates into an Obama landslide and a "good old fashioned ass kicking."

    Well, I mean, that’s what it is. I doodoo and then listen to Katy Perry.

    dexterstjacques

  • dexterstjacques said...

    Romney's up 13 with Independents in the latest Fox poll (the most recent one that had any detailed crosstabs). I love how that translates into an Obama landslide and a "good old fashioned ass kicking."

    So Romney is up 15% in regards to 8-10% of the voting public. Meanwhile Obama is up 15+% with women (that are 50+ % of the voting population) and 30+% with Hispanics which make up around 13-15% of the voting public. No that hard to figure out....but hey, Fox has a poll.

    9/21/2010...RIP Old IMS.

    Kaisersayzo

  • dexterstjacques said...

    Romney's up 13 with Independents in the latest Fox poll (the most recent one that had any detailed crosstabs). I love how that translates into an Obama landslide and a "good old fashioned ass kicking."

    Obama is up some 15% with women who make up over 50% of the total vote, he's up 30+% with hispanics which is about 13% of the vote and has 90+% of the black vote. So Obama is losing by 13% to Romney with what amounts to 10% of the vote. I like Obama's chances.

    9/21/2010...RIP Old IMS.

    Kaisersayzo

  • Kaisersayzo said...

    Obama is up some 15% with women who make up over 50% of the total vote, he's up 30+% with hispanics which is about 13% of the vote and has 90+% of the black vote. So Obama is losing by 13% to Romney with what amounts to 10% of the vote. I like Obama's chances.

    Uh, that's not how it works. First of all, independents were 29% of the vote in 2008, not 10%. A 13 point lead with independents would be about a 4 point swing nationally.

    Second, you can't compare Independents to Hispanics and women. They overlap, so any margins with these groups are built in to the D/R/I numbers.

    Best case scenario for Democrats, I+R is 60% of the vote (about what it was in 2008). Considering Romney also does better with Democrats than Obama does with Republicans (although not significantly), this is pretty clearly not a landslide for Obama (assuming the election was today, not 6 months from now).

    Well, I mean, that’s what it is. I doodoo and then listen to Katy Perry.

    dexterstjacques

  • dexterstjacques said...

    Uh, that's not how it works. First of all, independents were 29% of the vote in 2008, not 10%. A 13 point lead with independents would be about a 4 point swing nationally.

    Second, you can't compare Independents to Hispanics and women. They overlap, so any margins with these groups are built in to the D/R/I numbers.

    Best case scenario for Democrats, I+R is 60% of the vote (about what it was in 2008). Considering Romney also does better with Democrats than Obama does with Republicans (although not significantly), this is pretty clearly not a landslide for Obama (assuming the election was today, not 6 months from now).

    Fox poll is quite the outlier in this last week's worth of polls. And PPP publishes their crosstabs as well (and had Obama up 6, I believe), a standard all pollster should follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

    PaulUMD

  • neal990 said...

    You hate Obama! You hated Bush! You hated Clinton! You hated Reagan! You called Taft fat! You called Cleveland fat!

    Taft was clearly fat.

    PaulUMD

  • PaulUMD said...

    Fox poll is quite the outlier in this last week's worth of polls. And PPP publishes their crosstabs as well (and had Obama up 6, I believe), a standard all pollster should follow if they wish to be taken seriously.

    Yeah, PPP has good crosstabs. I didn't include them since their last poll was about 2 weeks ago (although not too much changed in the past two weeks).

    PPP had Obama up 9 with Independents actually.

    The Fox poll had Romney and Obama tied and PPP had Obama up 3, so a 22 point swing in Independents between the two polls translated into just a 3 point swing overall. D and R numbers were relatively close between the two. That just shows how fucked all of these models are at this point.

    Well, I mean, that’s what it is. I doodoo and then listen to Katy Perry.

    dexterstjacques

  • dexterstjacques said...

    Yeah, PPP has good crosstabs. I didn't include them since their last poll was about 2 weeks ago (although not too much changed in the past two weeks).

    PPP had Obama up 9 with Independents actually.

    The Fox poll had Romney and Obama tied and PPP had Obama up 3, so a 22 point swing in Independents between the two polls translated into just a 3 point swing overall. D and R numbers were relatively close between the two. That just shows how fucked all of these models are at this point.

    I think they did one for Daily Kos a couple days ago that had O up 6. Same poll methodology, but maybe RCP doesn't count it because it's done for a partisan website. Who knows.

    I think Mittens had a bit of a bump when he got the nomination but O going back up solidly in polls, though yes the methodology and their guessing about the electorate is all over the place right now.

    PaulUMD

  • Have to thank BO for telling me that Mitts wouldn't have gotten OBL. Wow, now he's a mind-reader and crystal ball reader; looking for a second career?

    BS19

  • Who needs the Battleground Poll when we have Paul and Dexter?

    interpid

  • LA Times sayin Portman "a done deal."

    Mitt Romney can go exciting and splashy with his vice presidential pick, or boring and safe. Apparently, the “smart money” is on the latter, and Sen. Rob Portman fits that bill perfectly.

    Doyle McManus, an opinion writer for the Los Angeles Times, writes this morning that the choice of Portman, R-Ohio, is essentially a done deal, even as the political class in Washington continues to chatter about other, more sparkling alternatives.

    “I hate to spoil the fun, but every Republican strategist I surveyed this week had the same answer: Romney’s almost certain to opt for the most boring, conventional choice possible, Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio,” McManus writes.

    The reason? Call it the Palin lesson.

    “Four years ago, a Republican nominee chose an exciting, fresh face for his running mate, and she promptly landed the campaign on Saturday Night Live,” McManus notes. “This year, the no-drama Romney campaign, so buttoned up that it makes Team Obama look like an improv troupe, wants to avoid a rerun of the Sarah Palin Experience.”

    sugarmag

  • bkmalik said...

    You should always want the president to be good at his job, because that makes the country better.

    That is exactly correct. The Country deserves a President who puts the Country first and his political aspirations/ideology second. I will get burned for saying this, but Jimmy Carter was such a President.

    BHO cannot hold Carter's jockstrap, except to make Carter's performance, once one digs into it, seem far superior to Obama's.

    tagterp

  • Coltsfan1832 said...

    pubs suck! no dems suck! pubs suck more! dems suck the most!

    Probably the most insightful post you have ever made!

    tagterp

  • Let’s just say it: The Republicans are the problem. - The Washington Post

    How Republicans have made Washington worse.

    www.washingtonpost.com

    sohlman6

  • sugarmag said...

    LA Times sayin Portman "a done deal."

    Mitt Romney can go exciting and splashy with his vice presidential pick, or boring and safe. Apparently, the “smart money” is on the latter, and Sen. Rob Portman fits that bill perfectly.

    Doyle McManus, an opinion writer for the Los Angeles Times, writes this morning that the choice of Portman, R-Ohio, is essentially a done deal, even as the political class in Washington continues to chatter about other, more sparkling alternatives.

    “I hate to spoil the fun, but every Republican strategist I surveyed this week had the same answer: Romney’s almost certain to opt for the most boring, conventional choice possible, Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio,” McManus writes.

    The reason? Call it the Palin lesson.

    “Four years ago, a Republican nominee chose an exciting, fresh face for his running mate, and she promptly landed the campaign on Saturday Night Live,” McManus notes. “This year, the no-drama Romney campaign, so buttoned up that it makes Team Obama look like an improv troupe, wants to avoid a rerun of the Sarah Palin Experience.”

    This decision is not a done deal. But Portman of Ohio and Rubio of Florida are imo the only two candidates. I can see someone has done a history lesson and seen no candidate has won the Presidency without winning Ohio. Portman would certainly help that, but Rubio is a two-fer, being from important swing State, Florida, and being Hispanic.

    Like I said, it is very unlikely this call has been made. Besides it is very doubtful a liberal rag like the LA Times has any credible insider info on Romney's actual thought process, other then being suckered into a planted story just to trial balloon the idea of Portman so this idea can be polled nationally.

    This post was edited by tagterp on 4/28/2012 at 1:23 PM

    tagterp

  • sohlman6 said...

    That settles it... I'm voting straight line Republican for the first time in my life.

    BS19

  • sohlman6 said...

    Pretty much the average WaPo column....on any subject.

    SATerp

  • Summary of the column: Americans keep electing republicans who want to enact policy. We don't like that. We disagree with their policies. We are smart, so that means their policies must be extreme.

    neal990

  • I think it's going to be Portman because he's one of those guys who won't turn off a certain demographic of the party. Rubio is a risky choice (see Dan Quayle, but I'm not comparing the two) and so is Ryan, but I don't think anyone can find fault with Portman.

    I think the GOP is going to make a big play for the Midwest this cycle, and use guys like Portman, Pawlenty and Daniels to do it.

    frode

  • Yeah, I think the whole notion of a VP candidate adding much to a campaign is overrated. I think Portman could help a little in Ohio, and he won't be a liability on the trail.

    neal990