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In this thread mattw75 educates us on education

  • Seriously though, matt always has great insight into what's going on in our clusterfuck of a public education system, particularly from the front lines. I don't think I've ever seen a thread/topic where he had the chance to lay out a "if I was making the decisions" type of post. It's clearly one of the top three issues (economy, foreign policy) facing the U.S. today and for the next 10-25 years, so I'd be curious to hear some of his ideas on how to overhaul the system that is currently failing miserably at a nationwide level (small pockets here and there excluded).

    "Jive Turkey"

    BtownHeel

  • Do you not read teaching stories? There is only so much that teachers can do to force students to learn and succeed in school if they have no support and/or emphasis on succeeding at home…

    terps99

  • terps99 said...

    Do you not read teaching stories? There is only so much that teachers can do to force students to learn and succeed in school if they have no support and/or emphasis on succeeding at home…

    Of course, and a huge part of the problem starts in the homes of a lot of these kids. However, the way the system is currently geared certainly isn't helping on it's end, and i was curious on hearing matt's take as to what changes he think might help

    "Jive Turkey"

    BtownHeel

  • Without family and community support it certainly is an uphill battle.

    AS many of you know my son taught in Baltimore for 2 years in teach for America -- they say that which does not kill you only makes you stronger -- well it was very hard for him. He was a kid that was used to making a difference and having everything go right. At some points he just couldn't reach some of the kids -- either they were already so far behind or there was just no support at home.

    When there was support at home it seemed like something else terrible would happen. He had one little girl whose mother was likely illiterate -- she would call my son every night for help on the homework so she could keep her daughter current. CHristmas that year her older son came home from Iraq and was murdered in downtown Baltimore. Just an anecdotal story but evidence none the less of how hard things are.

    My middle daughter is starting teach for America in Charlotte right now -- she is interviewing with principals and working on getting placed in a school. Yesterday she asked a Principal how was parent involvement at the school -- the principal replied "last year I had 495 students and 6 parents came to back to school night" pretty long odds of long-term success I'd say.

    You really have to love Matt -- a very smart and talented person who could be making a lot more money or doing many other things -- yet he is out everyday fighting to better these kids lives. It is really amazing.

    One more story on the teaching front that I will share -- my wife's uncle recently passed away he was 69 years old and had been retired from being a teacher in LA for 40 years. A vietnam vet he never married but was everyone's favorite uncle. One of the teachers that he mentored sent us an email telling a story that in her first year she team taught 6th grade with Uncle Matt. The year ended with sex education and at the end of every class they would collect questions from the kids in writing and answer them. Well one boy asked "does size really matter?" to which Uncle Matt turned to the 22 year old rookie teacher and said "Ms. Jones -- I think you are better equiped to answer that one" after she stuttered for about 90 seconds he bailed her out...

    This post was edited by crofton on 6/8/2012 at 5:33 AM

    crofton

  • BtownHeel said...

    Seriously though, matt always has great insight into what's going on in our clusterfuck of a public education system, particularly from the front lines. I don't think I've ever seen a thread/topic where he had the chance to lay out a "if I was making the decisions" type of post. It's clearly one of the top three issues (economy, foreign policy) facing the U.S. today and for the next 10-25 years, so I'd be curious to hear some of his ideas on how to overhaul the system that is currently failing miserably at a nationwide level (small pockets here and there excluded).

    You know what IS a CF? The software on this board.

    This post was edited by mattw75 on 6/8/2012 at 3:23 PM

    mattw75

  • mattw75 said...

    You know what IS a CF? The software on this board.

    Ha. I just took some time and typed out an earnest response, it was a double post, I edited the one, and it erased both.

    Anyhow, I don't think the system is a CF. I think schools for poor kids are usually pretty horrible, but schools for poor kids are horrible all over the world. The issues in these schools are issues of poverty, and nobody has a solution.

    From a teacher's perspective things are pretty grim right now, as "fixing the schools" is a popular issue, particularly among politicians and well paid liars like Michelle Rhee who are looking for personal gain. The real danger is when people who don't understand complex issues also have poor understandings of math and statistics.

    People who think poor kids' issues in school can be "solved" are either naive, stupid, or dishonest.

    We can improve things a bit, but that's not what people want to hear.

    mattw75

  • terps99 said...

    There is only so much that teachers can do to force students to learn and succeed in school if they have no support and/or emphasis on succeeding at home…

    This.

    I volunteer teach at a school near my office. In my limited experience, we have a parenting problem, not a school/teacher problem.

    I have been really impressed by most of the teachers/administrators I have met and worked with.

    terpinnyc

  • As usual Diane Ravitch is correct.

    I agree with her on education and "education reformers" the vast majority of the time.

    Why college-for-everybody is a sham: Ravitch - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post

    Education historian Diane Ravitch explains why education reformers who tout college for everybody are misunderstanding history and data.

    www.washingtonpost.com

    mattw75

  • We're moving to San Diego next month, and I'm getting my first experience as a parent of the public school system. My oldest (son) is 5 and was doing kindergarten at our church's school. He started a few months early, but being a private school, they let him progress from pre-school to pre-k to kindergarten. This fall, in San Diego, we're sending him to public school and he's going to have to do kindergarten again.

    However, here's what really gets me. We're going to be living in a neighborhood where we're zoned to go to one mediocre-ish bilingual school, but live close enough to one of the better elementary schools in San Diego where we could walk there too.

    We tried to get our son into the better school. Their "wait list" is some 300 kids long, and over the last 5 years, they haven't had ANY openings for kids out of their traditional zone. Something about this seems wrong, that the public school paradigm is a failure. Of course we know this, but I don't understand that given the desire for so many parents to try to get their kids into better schools, why there isn't a bigger push to completely privatize the school system. Or at least partially privatize it so that parents actually have a choice as to where to send their kids without having to pay twice for school.

    Next is the issue of going to a bilingual school. My son's going to be forced to learn Spanish. Now, I've got no problem with him learning another language. However, he's already learning Greek. I try to speak as much as I can at home, and he goes (and will continue to go) to Greek school once a week in the evening. Now, he's going to have to start learning another language. While I totally agree that learning foreign languages is easier the younger they are, I don't think it's a good idea for him to be learning a third language.

    I'm being forced to pay to send my son to a school I don't particularly want him going to, am not allowed to send him to the school I do want to, and if I want to send him to a private school, I'm paying twice. Great system we got there.

    (Gratuitous shot at teachers unions ahead)

    Thanks, teachers unions, for blocking all attempts to at least partially privatize education so that I do have a choice where to send my son. Really looking out for the kids there.

    wcterp

  • That sucks but I think teacher's unions are hardly the main obstacle to open enrollment in public schools.

    People make decisions on where to live based largely on the zoned school. So much of what makes a "great" school great are the kids and parents. Less important are the facilities, administration, and teachers. Parents who've paid a real estate premium to send their kids to the "good" school throw fits (understandably so) when this system is changed.

    There were nearly soccer mom riots in Crofton when they wanted to send the kids in my neighborhood to Crofton Elementary instead of Crofton Woods. (This was before Crofton Meadows Elementary opened and those parents were going CRAZY that their kids might be sitting next to kids with divorced parents or who God forbid lived in townhouses.) Which is funny, but that's the way things work and I don't think teacher's unions are the main impediment to open enrollment.

    This post was edited by mattw75 on 6/11/2012 at 2:45 PM

    mattw75

  • Teachers' unions catch a lot of undeserved flack (don't get me wrong, some is deserved). Take a look at the people in the building at your local Board of Education.

    terp325423

  • In my (admittedly limited) experience, there are tons of wonderful teachers and lower level administrators out there, and most of them are doing a fine job. However, once you get up the food chain to the City/County/District board level, the administrators there are some of the most useless people I have ever met. I have a theory is that is has a lot to do with the truly passionate educators not wanting to get away from the "frontline" (individual school/classroom) while the typical ladder climbing bureaucrats just want to get to the cushy 100K a year for not really doing shit worthwhile level and being a self-important douche.

    Not sure how universal that is, but has certainly borne out in several different parts of NC.

    "Jive Turkey"

    BtownHeel

  • wcterp said...

    why there isn't a bigger push to completely privatize the school system. Or at least partially privatize it so that parents actually have a choice as to where to send their kids without having to pay twice for school.

    I just attended an orientation for my son's kindergarten in a NYC public school. We moved six blocks north several years ago in order to be "zoned" for this school, as it is considered one of the "good" public schools.

    During orientation this morning they mentioned that parent activities and donations raised over $400k for things like teaching assistants and supplemental programs (band, art, etc).

    Seems to me this is the semi-privatization model in play and is driven exclusively by parental involvement.

    terpinnyc

  • Yeah. It's tough. In my experience a lot of those folks are really talented, and a lot...not so much. At the highest levels they are getting paid (relatively) crazy money and I'm not sure what they do other than give interviews.

    That said, I've got a kid to feed and I'll be finished with my admin certification a year from now ;)

    mattw75

  • My mother taught for about 25 years (usually high schools honors for 11th and 12th grade) before taking over as a Department Coordinator in the County School Board Office ten years ago. While she does have the nice bureaucratic pay scale, she spends most of her time having to deal with compliance with Title 1 audits and 23 year-old government auditors who hate themselves. She should be spending most of her time developing curriculum at all levels, K-12, like she's supposed to, but it just doesn't work that way. The federal/state level compliance is what is killing the system, and not the teachers/admin. Like many things education needs to be more localized, and not so bureaucratic.

    Hey JMU6375

  • The idea that priority one in struggling districts is to get rid of more teachers is absurd. They don't stick around long enough as it is.
    ____________
    Richard Ingersoll of the University of Pennsylvania estimates that, “nationally, on average, about 20 percent of new public school teachers leave their district to teach in another district or leave teaching altogether within one year, one-third do so within two years, and 55 percent do so within five years.” In DCPS, by contrast, 55 percent of new teachers leave in their first two years, according to an analysis by DCPS budget watchdog Mary Levy. Eighty percent are gone by the end of their sixth year. That means that most of the teachers brought in during the past five years are no longer there. By comparison, in Montgomery County just 11.5 percent leave by the end of their second year, and 30 percent by the end of year five. DCPS has become a teacher turnover factory. It has a hard time keeping teachers who are committed to their school and the community it serves.

    Is teacher churn undermining real education reform in D.C.? - The Washington Post

    It could be undermining real reform.

    www.washingtonpost.com

    mattw75

  • mattw75 said...

    As usual Diane Ravitch is correct.

    I agree with her on education and 'education reformers' the vast majority of the time.

    She posted to a story about my friend Emmanual regarding TFA last week. Manny really helped open my eyes to the horror that is TFA. He still thinks it's a good idea for some reason. I find it abhorrent and outdated.

    TheColfax

  • wcterp said...

    Next is the issue of going to a bilingual school. My son's going to be forced to learn Spanish.

    Dude, this is the best thing you can do for your son. 3 languages won't confuse him any more than 2 will.

    This post was edited by TheColfax on 6/16/2012 at 12:52 PM

    TheColfax

  • TheColfax said...

    She posted to a story about my friend Emmanual regarding TFA last week. Manny really helped open my eyes to the horror that is TFA. He still thinks it's a good idea for some reason. I find it abhorrent and outdated.

    I like Teach For America teachers even though people who run the program are absolutely full of crap with their data and worldview based on that data. It's run by some real kool-aid drinkers. That said, TFA'ers who stick it out for more than two years often become great teachers, in my experience. TFA'ers in their second year are often pretty decent. In school districts where nobody qualified even wants the job, that's not too bad.

    TFA should be seen as just a tool, though, not a panacea.

    Oh and in a "Some of my best friends are black" way, I'm going to a TFA wedding next month. My buddy, one of the best teachers I've ever known, was TFA and he's marrying a TFA'er. He did his five years and he's out. I bet that out of their friends at the wedding I'll be one of the few non TFA'ers. Have to re-learn the handshake.

    This post was edited by mattw75 on 6/16/2012 at 9:45 PM

    mattw75

  • Interesting piece on summer reading.

    I don't think I ever did any assigned summer reading. To be honest, I don't remember any being assigned.
    _______
    Some Books Are More Equal Than Others
    By CLAIRE NEEDELL HOLLANDER

    BECAUSE I am a middle school reading enrichment teacher, parents and colleagues often ask my advice about summer assignments. My automatic reply echoes a hit song from the ’70s, “any love is good lovin’.” I tell them blithely that any reading is good reading, while I think to myself, we’ll take whatever we can get.

    The data, however, show that my mantra holds true only for the least experienced readers, who attain knowledge every time they read. This age group is fast acquiring verbal knowledge (an increase in word recognition) and world knowledge (an increase in understanding about the world around them), even when they’re reading comic books or relatively simple narratives. For newly fluent readers, usually age 8 or 9, any reading is indeed good reading.

    But for students in middle school and high school, reading selection does matter. Students attain more knowledge of both kinds reading Stephen Crane’s “Red Badge of Courage” than they do reading the “Hunger Games” series. When the protagonist of “Red Badge” reflects on his pride in having “donned blue,” it requires both verbal and world knowledge to comprehend that he is proud of having enlisted as a Union soldier.

    While “The Hunger Games” may entrance readers, what does a 13-year-old gain in verbal and world knowledge from the series? A student may encounter a handful of unfamiliar words, while contemplating human dynamics that are cartoonish, with violent revolution serving as the backdrop for teen romance.

    Reading literature should be intentional. The problem with much summer reading is that the intention is unclear. Increasingly, students are asked to choose their own summer reading from Web sites like ReadKiddoRead, where the same advanced Real World Fiction category includes “The Catcher in the Rye” and “Flipped,” by Wendelin Van Draanen, which centers on divorce and kissing. Both books can be enjoyed by middle schoolers, but how will the seventh grader determine which one to pick?

    The issue is further compounded when summer assignments require students to write about what they read. The problem is that the tasks assigned are at once too open and too circumscribed to be of use. What summer reading needs to be is purposeful. But how do we ensure purposeful independent reading given the low accountability of summer assignments?

    Some students will happily read off a recommended-reading list (which should include a companion list of resources to support understanding). They will head to the park with Dickens or Austen under their arms, so long as they can leave the Post-it notes at home. They should be permitted this luxury, to have their teachers treat them as independent learners capable of a first dip into a classic, with no destined-to-be-unread written responses required. Doing this allows the student who chooses tougher books to say, “I didn’t understand half of it.” What better time to allow students to struggle than summer, when no one is calling on them to interpret or explain?

    So what should students be asked to do? I propose focusing on accessible nonfiction guaranteed to increase world and verbal knowledge. I recommend the following books. For middle schoolers: “Facing the Lion,” by Joseph Lemasolai Lekuton with Herman Viola; “A Long Way Gone,” by Ishmael Beah; and “Iqbal,” by Francesco D’Adamo and Ann Leonori (which is a novel about a real kid). For upper middle school and high school students: “Hiroshima,” by John Hersey; “Night,” by Elie Wiesel; “Fast Food Nation,” by Eric Schlosser; “The Omnivore’s Dilemma,” by Michael Pollan; “Girls Like Us,” by Rachel Lloyd; and “Behind the Beautiful Forevers,” by Katherine Boo.

    These nonfiction books provoke students to desire an expanded world knowledge, to consider the flawed moral decision making of the past and the imperiled morality of the future. They all contain high-level vocabulary, but not so much that a typical student might fail to grasp major points.

    As we rounded the corner into the tail end of eighth grade, I set out a number of these books for students to choose from for an informal reading class. One student chose to read “Hiroshima” during her last two weeks of school. After a day or so, I checked in with her. Although the eighth grade covered the dropping of the bomb in social studies, I wanted to be certain she could handle the material. I asked, as a casual conversation opener: “It’s pretty disgusting, isn’t it?” She replied, “I feel more sympathy than disgust for these people, Ms. Hollander.”

    As the kids say, my bad.

    Another student, a struggling reader, chose “A Long Way Gone,” about a child soldier. When I checked in with him, he opened his laptop, pointing out his home country on a map that showed places in which young men, including his father, had been forced into armed service. He reminded me that I cannot always anticipate what a book will say to a reader.

    While reading classic literature with students is my passion, I prefer that students explore literature in the summer as a pleasure and return to school curious about the world around them, not weary from having written about books they could not fully understand, or smug from having earned credit for an essay on a book they could have easily comprehended in fourth grade.

    Summer assignments should be about why we need to learn and why we need to talk about what we think. We have to move students away from disgust at the unknown, at the horrors visited on other human beings, and toward sympathy. Students who have immersed themselves in real-world problems become excited by current events and history as well as literature. They can make connections between academic areas that are ordinarily divided. They will understand Dickens better for having read “Iqbal,” which tells the story of a boy who is sold into slavery at a carpet factory.

    Reading serious nonfiction in the summer is an immersion in the world of necessary ideas. So let’s try that instead of the late August nagging and the relentless complaints from parents about their child’s stubborn refusal to enjoy, say, “To Kill a Mockingbird.” To those parents who wish ardently to re-experience their first literary love, I say, reread it yourself. Perhaps you will recall that the real horrors in that novel happen offstage, to characters who remain peripheral to the narrative. Perhaps your children need to confront some hard truths this summer that will make it easier for them to want to learn about the world.

    This post was edited by mattw75 on 6/25/2012 at 8:06 PM

    How to Choose Summer Reading for Students - NYTimes.com

    For enlightening summer reading, students should pick up nonfiction that tells them about the world as it actually is.

    www.nytimes.com

    mattw75

  • wcterp said...

    We're moving to San Diego next month, and I'm getting my first experience as a parent of the public school system. My oldest (son) is 5 and was doing kindergarten at our church's school. He started a few months early, but being a private school, they let him progress from pre-school to pre-k to kindergarten. This fall, in San Diego, we're sending him to public school and he's going to have to do kindergarten again.

    However, here's what really gets me. We're going to be living in a neighborhood where we're zoned to go to one mediocre-ish bilingual school, but live close enough to one of the better elementary schools in San Diego where we could walk there too.

    We tried to get our son into the better school. Their "wait list" is some 300 kids long, and over the last 5 years, they haven't had ANY openings for kids out of their traditional zone. Something about this seems wrong, that the public school paradigm is a failure. Of course we know this, but I don't understand that given the desire for so many parents to try to get their kids into better schools, why there isn't a bigger push to completely privatize the school system. Or at least partially privatize it so that parents actually have a choice as to where to send their kids without having to pay twice for school.

    Next is the issue of going to a bilingual school. My son's going to be forced to learn Spanish. Now, I've got no problem with him learning another language. However, he's already learning Greek. I try to speak as much as I can at home, and he goes (and will continue to go) to Greek school once a week in the evening. Now, he's going to have to start learning another language. While I totally agree that learning foreign languages is easier the younger they are, I don't think it's a good idea for him to be learning a third language.

    I'm being forced to pay to send my son to a school I don't particularly want him going to, am not allowed to send him to the school I do want to, and if I want to send him to a private school, I'm paying twice. Great system we got there.

    (Gratuitous shot at teachers unions ahead)

    Thanks, teachers unions, for blocking all attempts to at least partially privatize education so that I do have a choice where to send my son. Really looking out for the kids there.

    greek=useless skill to have
    spanish=good skill to have

    TortugaGrande

  • you need any elementary school teachers in Bmore?

    swemmm

  • swemmm said...

    you need any elementary school teachers in Bmore?

    I don't know anything about elementary schools.

    The need areas I know about are secondary special ed, math, and science.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are openings.

    PM me and I'll check around for you.

    mattw75

  • Amazon.com: F in Exams: The Very Best Totally Wrong Test Answers (9780811878319): Richard Benson: Books

    F in Exams: The Very Best Totally Wrong Test Answers [Richard Benson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* super saver shipping on qualifying offers. F stands for funny in this perfect gift for students or anyone who has ever had to struggle through a test and needs a good laugh. Celebrating the creative side of failure in a way we can all relate to

    www.amazon.com

    letsgoterps

  • TheColfax said...

    She posted to a story about my friend Emmanual regarding TFA last week. Manny really helped open my eyes to the horror that is TFA. He still thinks it's a good idea for some reason. I find it abhorrent and outdated.

    Having one kid done the program and second just finish her summer training I will say this about the program:

    1) It opens the eyes of some very bright and capable people to the problems in education. As they progress through their careers this can only help

    2) It opens the eyes of their parent's and parent's friends who often are fairly well off and have resources -- that can alos only help

    3) It puts some strong people in classrooms that would have never considered going there without the program -- many stick and that is a benefit (Matt alluded to this)

    Overall I have been very impressed with the many young people that I have met in the program. And I will find myself doing things to support inner city education for years to come -- I certainly have a sensitivity to it I never would have had before.

    crofton