Off-Topic

For the most part, we are individualists. We obviously experience the universe through our own first person, so we view it, and our lives, as the result of a chain of decisions and actions that we began at birth. Naturally, this leads the average person to exclaim "of course we have free will."

Like most questions of this nature, it's a bit more complicated than that. I do believe in free will, since there are countless examples throughout history of individuals rising beyond any reasonable expectation of their surroundings to stunning results simply through an inner drive that was more resilient than the state of nature around them. To me, this exemplifies free will. The will to choose to be more, simply because you believe you can, in the face of any adversity. That's the single most amazing thing about life in my opinion. To a large extent, the world operates beyond our control. There is an upper limit to the effect a single actor can have on the environment around them. However, the average person "accepts" (whether consciously or subconsciously) this ceiling at a much lower level than it is truly set. The guy who dropped out of high school accepts that he will live paycheck to paycheck for life. The 5 at the bar accepts that they can't make the 9 over there fall in love with them. The kid raised in the projects accepts that they can't make a positive change in the world around them. This simply isn't the case. Strength of character (or "free will") allows certain individuals to choose not to play the hand they were dealt, and cast the rules aside in an attempt to move above the state of nature. It's these examples that inspire us, as well they should, because the will as it's simplest state lies within all of us. The question that hasn't been answered yet is what the catalyst is that sparks that reaction, and continues to fuel it.

Why is this a trolly topic? Wasn't intended that way.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. What have I done wrong?!

Edit: Reading some of the replies it seems like people are reading my first post in completely the wrong way. Some people are simpletons and see the word "asshole" and gay people in the same sentence and read it as derogatory towards gay people. Read the post again. It's a contrast. I.e. assholes are bad because they affect other people in a negative way. Gay people are not bad because they don't affect people in a negative way.

Ironically the genesis of this thread (and the reason I brought up gays at all) was knight's homophobia in the other thread. I thought about how knight was as responsible for his homophobia as I am for my hatred of mustard. (Although his homophobia is obviously worse since it is harmful to people.)

I just watched this video. Dennett is obviously really smart- much, much, much smarter than me of course so perhaps I'm missing something- but this talk doesn't really convince me. I think it's the best case you can make but when it comes down to it he's admitting that free will comes down to a bunch of micro deterministic processes isn't he? How is that different from saying what I said in my original post besides that it sounds more scientific(rhetorically not logically)? Dennett is playing with semantics here I think.

I actually want to be convinced of Dennett's argument, and I think I was on the cusp at a few different points during the speech. I was watching it and I wanted very badly for him to connect the dots. I think I would find it much more comforting if I was convinced of free will. He just never finished me off.

I remember reading a possible definition about free will of decision making: It's defined as when you are able to clearly and premeditatively think about your next course of action. If one is able to vacilate and contemplate, etc, then he/she is able to make a choice (regardless of all other pre-determistic events).

The counter argument from determinism is that even though you are thinking a long time about your next course of action, that still was caused (at the last second of your thought process- by something beyond your control)