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Free will doesn't exist, right?

  • It seems like we avoid the obvious on this topic. We are a bunch of chemicals that interact with each other, right? Yet we like to act like there is something outside of this that defines us. Something that "we" control, as if you can separate the stuff we are made of from ourselves.

    E.g.some gay marriage advocates argue that being gay is genetically defined. Why is this relevant? Being an asshole is probably genetic to some extent, and anything that isn't is nurture which isn't under our control either. (I am for gay marriage but my argument would be that gay marriage is not bad and doesn't hurt anyone, not that it is outside of their control, since pretty much everything is outside of our control)

    Don't want this to be another gay marriage thread.
    What do you think about free will?

    I'm so deep.

    This post was edited by notaterpterp on 2/26/2012 at 4:36 AM

    notaterpterp

  • I've often wondered this, myself. Stimuli, such as sight, sound, taste, etc. cause different axons and dendrites to react within our nervous system. When it comes down to it, we're an input-output machine. Obviously, a complex one, but you can break it down to that.

    Where it gets interesting is that there simultaneously so many stimuli affecting our reactions. On top of that, the "rules" get rewritten every time you encounter a given situation. For example, as kids, we all learned to keep our fingers away from hot things like fire only after burning ourselves (We all did that, right?). So, the first time you see fire, you think "oooh, bright!" The next time, you know better. Every time we experience something, it affects the future outcome you will "experience." Because if it is simply an equation (granted, with an impossible number of variables), not only is there no free will, is there even anything that isn't already predetermined?

    And then, if everything follows a timeline, haven't we already experienced everything that we will experience? We just don't know it yet. Similarly, does this allow for us to slow down or speed up time, or even time travel if we become aware that we're just bystanders within our own bodies? frustrated

    ajefx

  • I like turtles

    7erps

  • 7erps said...

    I like turtles

    Beastiality? Dude, you're gross.

    parlay

  • It all comes down to strength. Strength=dominance. Weakness=submission.

    Nothing exists without strength. Not beauty, not culture. Who knows what magnificent art and people have been lost to history for lack of strength to preserve it?

    Strength affects will. The two are intertwined. A man with strength can assert his will over other men, over nature, and his environment. And a man who asserts his will over something, controls, or dominates it to a degree.

    So is there free will? If you have strength, then yes. If not, you are someone's puppet. maybe even mine.

    Many of Pitt's 58 "rushing attempts" were the result qb Tino Sunseri fleeing the pocket like a man whose clothes were on fire.

    Nolaeer

  • Nolaeer said...

    So is there free will? If you have strength, then yes. If not, you are someone's puppet. maybe even mine.

    Whenever you write something there's always a weird sexual sub-text that I find delightful.

    This post was edited by TheGrove on 2/26/2012 at 9:17 AM

    http://thehamsterdam.com/

    TheGrove

  • This thread should be changed to "Greatest Minds of the Suque Discuss Life and Other Things"

    7erps

  • Free will vs. Determinism- the ageless philosophical debate.

    Most people assume that we have free will, and that in itself, may be the only way free will actually does exist. In other words, if you believe in free will or if you are too ignorant to know of any other possibility, then free will exists. Of course, if you believe a lepracaun lives in inside your ahole, then that may be enough to prove its existence as well.

    A long time ago in Comm 107 (speech) at UMD, I spoke about how one's sense of this debate defines your whole life. I asked everyone in the room why they sat down in the same desk everyday, and if they really thought that was their choice. The one kid said, I just come into the classroom and choose to sit there everyday No, it wasn't his choice. Something, beyond their control, forced them to sit their everyday (perhaps the brain likes familiar comfort zone settings, etc).

    A lot folks claim to be soft deterministic, a hybrid between free will and hard determinism. A lot of scientists claim everything is beyond our control, and there is zero room for free will. Another interesting possibility is how random events or missing variables to our eyes could play a role in this debate.

    There are too many possibilities and too many arguments to claim absolute certainty about free will vs. determinism. However, it may be extremely important for those debating topics such as gay rights, abortion, death penalty, etc to at least consider that free may not exist.

    SodaTerpinski

  • I'll bite.

    If we get down even smaller than an atomic level we can analyze the entire universe based on string theory and quantum mechanics. The whole idea is that given an infinite amount of time everything can and will happen. So by that theory given an infinite number of trials I'll eventually be able to walk through a wall or teleport or something crazy like that.
    That leads me to think as to why the random molecules that make us up choose to organize themselves into constructing a rational environment in which to interact. What is life? Why do the individual carbons and hydrogens that make up most of our body somehow come together to form a being. On a molecular level what is the benefit of that? Does evolution apply to molecules and atoms as well? Does somehow being constructed into a life form have benefits for individual molecules? And then we get into what the hell consciousness is. For some reason somehow various molecules come together and create this thing to us which is consciousness. But what is the benefit of that? Why is it beneficial of us to be aware of things on such a level. Why aren't we just zombie like clumps of molecules that go task to task just carrying on? Somehow through the craziness of nature our clumps of molecules and atoms are able to identify the world around us.

    I'm not a religious person at all. But when you analyze it had a molecular level life, and consciousness seems so impossibly improbable that it sort of screams intelligent design. Not at a planetary level but at a universal one. Wouldn't it be crazy if our universe was really just a marble for some huge thing like in Men in Black. Crazy stuff

    RedandWhite

  • There are those who think that life is nothing left to chance, A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance

    robterp

  • SodaTerpinski said...

    Free will vs. Determinism- the ageless philosophical debate.

    Most people assume that we have free will, and that in itself, may be the only way free will actually does exist. In other words, if you believe in free will or if you are too ignorant to know of any other possibility, then free will exists. Of course, if you believe a lepracaun lives in inside your ahole, then that may be enough to prove its existence as well.

    A long time ago in Comm 107 (speech) at UMD, I spoke about how one's sense of this debate defines your whole life. I asked everyone in the room why they sat down in the same desk everyday, and if they really thought that was their choice. The one kid said, I just come into the classroom and choose to sit there everyday No, it wasn't his choice. Something, beyond their control, forced them to sit their everyday (perhaps the brain likes familiar comfort zone settings, etc).

    A lot folks claim to be soft deterministic, a hybrid between free will and hard determinism. A lot of scientists claim everything is beyond our control, and there is zero room for free will. Another interesting possibility is how random events or missing variables to our eyes could play a role in this debate.

    There are too many possibilities and too many arguments to claim absolute certainty about free will vs. determinism. However, it may be extremely important for those debating topics such as gay rights, abortion, death penalty, etc to at least consider that free may not exist.

    Most people are weak-so they do not have free will. Only the strong have free will, and they exercise it over the weak. It has been that way throughout history. There is no room for any other debate on the point.

    Ghengis Khan had free will because he had strength. he exerted his will over that of other men and his environment to a large degree, removing their free will and making them subservient to his will. Lesser men who obeyed the Khan received the right to make some mundane decisions for themselves. But their free will was to a large degree eviscerated. They did what the Khan said or they died, along with their families.

    It is because he had strength and they did not.

    That is why modern society has done everything it can to undermine strength. Women especially since their sex lacks physical might. How can a woman truly be equal when free will depends on strength? That's right. they cant unless men have their masculinity stripped from them.

    So we have a society that tries through laws and morals to undo a basic tenet of nature-and that is that everything depends on strength.

    Many of Pitt's 58 "rushing attempts" were the result qb Tino Sunseri fleeing the pocket like a man whose clothes were on fire.

    Nolaeer

  • No, I choose to hate N.C. State every day when I wake up and every night before I go to sleep.

    "And I try to har-mo-nize with songs the lonesome sparrow sings... There are no kings inside the Gates of Eden."

    dixonownsyou ●

  • Nolaeer said...

    Most people are weak-so they do not have free will. Only the strong have free will, and they exercise it over the weak. It has been that way throughout history. There is no room for any other debate on the point.

    Ghengis Khan had free will because he had strength. he exerted his will over that of other men and his environment to a large degree, removing their free will and making them subservient to his will. Lesser men who obeyed the Khan received the right to make some mundane decisions for themselves. But their free will was to a large degree eviscerated. They did what the Khan said or they died, along with their families.

    It is because he had strength and they did not.

    That is why modern society has done everything it can to undermine strength. Women especially since their sex lacks physical might. How can a woman truly be equal when free will depends on strength? That's right. they cant unless men have their masculinity stripped from them.

    So we have a society that tries through laws and morals to undo a basic tenet of nature-and that is that everything depends on strength.

    Free will isn't the power to impose subservience upon others. Free will is the ability to make your own choices regarding your actions and beliefs. Strength can limit the free will of others (i.e., their liberties), and government is established to prevent such infringements on liberties. This, at least, is the basic idea of American government. Obviously they disagree in other parts of the world.

    Pleased to meet you; hope you guess my name.

    Peabody22

  • Nolaeer said...

    Ghengis Khan had free will because he had strength.

    This statement contradicts itself.

    SodaTerpinski

  • Nolaeer said...

    It all comes down to strength. Strength=dominance. Weakness=submission.

    Nothing exists without strength. Not beauty, not culture. Who knows what magnificent art and people have been lost to history for lack of strength to preserve it?

    Strength affects will. The two are intertwined. A man with strength can assert his will over other men, over nature, and his environment. And a man who asserts his will over something, controls, or dominates it to a degree.

    So is there free will? If you have strength, then yes. If not, you are someone's puppet. maybe even mine.

    This is like the Mein Kampf for rape

    Flops

  • Flops said...

    This is like the Mein Kampf for rape

    OMGYES

    7erps

  • KnightAtWake said...

    ITT: people talk about string theory who have had (at best) physics 101 or AKA OMGREALZSCIENCE

    Im actually a chemical engineering major and am currently taking physics 3 so i obviously know all about the inner mechanisms of our existance

    RedandWhite

  • RedandWhite said...

    Im actually a chemical engineering major and am currently taking physics 3 so i obviously know all about the inner mechanisms of our existance

    However, I still don't know how to spell existence.

    http://www.ghitp.wordpress.com/

    JManslow

  • JManslow said...

    However, I still don't know how to spell existence.

    Nobody's perfect.

    RedandWhite

  • White mans burden.

    attachment

    Watch how much evil we call the crime picks up...There is nothing else to do Sal!- Ray Lewis

    TerrapinFanMan

  • RedandWhite said...

    Nobody's perfect.

    attachment

    Pyroterp

  • RedandWhite said...

    I'll bite.

    If we get down even smaller than an atomic level we can analyze the entire universe based on string theory and quantum mechanics. The whole idea is that given an infinite amount of time everything can and will happen. So by that theory given an infinite number of trials I'll eventually be able to walk through a wall or teleport or something crazy like that. That leads me to think as to why the random molecules that make us up choose to organize themselves into constructing a rational environment in which to interact. What is life? Why do the individual carbons and hydrogens that make up most of our body somehow come together to form a being. On a molecular level what is the benefit of that? Does evolution apply to molecules and atoms as well? Does somehow being constructed into a life form have benefits for individual molecules? And then we get into what the hell consciousness is. For some reason somehow various molecules come together and create this thing to us which is consciousness. But what is the benefit of that? Why is it beneficial of us to be aware of things on such a level. Why aren't we just zombie like clumps of molecules that go task to task just carrying on? Somehow through the craziness of nature our clumps of molecules and atoms are able to identify the world around us.

    I'm not a religious person at all. But when you analyze it had a molecular level life, and consciousness seems so impossibly improbable that it sort of screams intelligent design. Not at a planetary level but at a universal one. Wouldn't it be crazy if our universe was really just a marble for some huge thing like in Men in Black. Crazy stuff

    Life is the universe becoming self-aware.

    Gumbercules

  • KnightAtWake said...

    I'm going to disregard the fact that you were trying to communicate something by typing "physics 3."

    Here, watch this, it will hopefully fix a small part of you: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-102519600994873365

    I found this to be VERY ILLUMINATING concerning your discussion about the topic at hand which the OP failed to mention.

    This post was edited by TheRawDogg on 2/26/2012 at 3:34 PM

    Free Willzyx (Season 9, Episode 13) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios

    Watch Free Willzyx (Season 9, Episode 13) at South Park Studios. The boys try to help a talking whale get to space in a giant rocket ship. After stealing the whale and being turned down by the Russian and Chinese space programs, they head to Tijuana, where they find that MASA (Mexican Aeronautica y Spacia Administracion) will take their whale to the moon for 0..

    www.southparkstudios.com

    TheRawDogg

  • KnightAtWake said...

    u: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-102519600994873365

    what is the difference between google video and google owned youtube?

    winterps ●

  • RedandWhite said...

    I'll bite.

    If we get down even smaller than an atomic level we can analyze the entire universe based on string theory and quantum mechanics. The whole idea is that given an infinite amount of time everything can and will happen. So by that theory given an infinite number of trials I'll eventually be able to walk through a wall or teleport or something crazy like that.
    That leads me to think as to why the random molecules that make us up choose to organize themselves into constructing a rational environment in which to interact. What is life? Why do the individual carbons and hydrogens that make up most of our body somehow come together to form a being. On a molecular level what is the benefit of that? Does evolution apply to molecules and atoms as well? Does somehow being constructed into a life form have benefits for individual molecules? And then we get into what the hell consciousness is. For some reason somehow various molecules come together and create this thing to us which is consciousness. But what is the benefit of that? Why is it beneficial of us to be aware of things on such a level. Why aren't we just zombie like clumps of molecules that go task to task just carrying on? Somehow through the craziness of nature our clumps of molecules and atoms are able to identify the world around us.

    I'm not a religious person at all. But when you analyze it had a molecular level life, and consciousness seems so impossibly improbable that it sort of screams intelligent design. Not at a planetary level but at a universal one. Wouldn't it be crazy if our universe was really just a marble for some huge thing like in Men in Black. Crazy stuff

    shocking that this tard messed this up

    Overlord NJT

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