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Fight's a-brewin' between the Holder DOJ and Florida

  • frode said...

    I'd like to see one shred of evidence from the DOJ (this is ongoing, of course) that Florida is intentionally targeting minorities, and not intentionally targeting people who shouldn't be on the registry.

    P.S. In the spirit of not being sensationalist and discussing this issue rationally, it should probably be mentioned that this isn't even a remotely correct recitation of the legal standards at play. So whether Florida is acting appropriately or not (and I have no more information about that than you do), I wouldn't be demanding evidence about Florida "intentionally targeting minorities" as the only thing that would justify the DOJ's actions. You can violate federal voting laws in many ways other than "intentionally targeting minorities." The DOJ doesn't necessarily have to provide evidence to establish the state's intent on that ground.

    This post was edited by terps99 on 6/3/2012 at 11:03 AM

    terps99

  • terps99 said...

    Yes, I suppose if we make stuff up to try and support an argument, that's true. But in reality, all that's happened so far is that the DOJ has requested information and Florida hasn't even responded to that request yet. But sure, let's complain about other people being sensationalist!

    "...please advise whether the State intends to cease the practice described above..."

    Further verbiage is standard fed-talk for "if you don't, we're going to fuck you up, but want deniability."

    TPM Docs: DOJ Demands Florida Stop Voter Purge

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/95500652/TPM-Docs-DOJ-Demands-Florida-Stop-Voter-Purge

    www.scribd.com

    SATerp

  • SATerp said...

    "...please advise whether the State intends to cease the practice described above..."

    Further verbiage is standard fed-talk for "if you don't, we're going to fuck you up, but want deniability."

    More like this thread is standard talk for "I have no idea how the hell this stuff works but conservative media is talking about it and a democrat did it so it must be wrong."

    Helpful summary: Section 5 of the Civil Rights Act freezes election practices or procedures in certain states [like Florida] until the new procedures have been subjected to review, either AFTER an administrative review by the United States Attorney General, or AFTER a lawsuit before the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. This means that voting changes in covered jurisdictions may not be used until AFTER that review has been obtained.

    Hence, the letter stating what it does. That's standard talk for "Tell us what you're doing...and if what you're doing is different from what you have been doing, tell us if you intend to cease the practice until you've received approval as required by law."

    terps99

  • SATerp said...

    Well, that IS a good point. And if you look at it from the perspective that Rick Scott is a brain eating alien, it not only makes sense, but becomes very urgent.

    Is this a different outbreak or is it related to the zombipocalypse?

    winterps

  • terps99 said...

    More like this thread is standard talk for "I have no idea how the hell this stuff works but conservative media is talking about it and a democrat did it so it must be wrong."

    Helpful summary: Section 5 of the Civil Rights Act freezes election practices or procedures in certain states [like Florida] until the new procedures have been subjected to review, either AFTER an administrative review by the United States Attorney General, or AFTER a lawsuit before the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. This means that voting changes in covered jurisdictions may not be used until AFTER that review has been obtained.

    Hence, the letter stating what it does. That's standard talk for "Tell us what you're doing...and if what you're doing is different from what you have been doing, tell us if you intend to cease the practice until you've received approval as required by law."

    So your statement that "... in reality, all that's happened so far is that the DOJ has requested information" is incorrect, in that Holder is both "requesting information" and prescribing the course of action that he wants for Florida ("cease").

    Unless you intend to argue that "cease" no longer means "stop."

    SATerp

  • winterps said...

    Is this a different outbreak or is it related to the zombipocalypse?

    If we just cut Florida loose and push it off to sea, we can still minimize the damage.

    SATerp

  • SATerp said...

    So your statement that "... in reality, all that's happened so far is that the DOJ has requested information" is incorrect, in that Holder is both "requesting information" and prescribing the course of action that he wants for Florida ("cease").

    Unless you intend to argue that "cease" no longer means "stop."

    I can obviously argue semantics as much as anyone, so we can do that if you want, but the bottom line is that all that's happened so far is that letter going out asking Florida to provide answers. Who knows, maybe Florida's response will be "we're not doing anything new/different and thus aren't violating Section 5 because there is nothing new to pre-approve."

    [It's not even as if the DOJ has ordered Florida to do something or stated what actions the DOJ will take. Even the comment about "ceasing" the conduct comes in the way of a request for information: "Please advise whether the state intends to cease the practice discussed above, so that the Department can determine what further action, if any, is necessary." Who knows, maybe regardless of what Florida says, the DOJ will decide that no further action is necessary.]

    But yes, let's try making more of a mountain out of a molehill before anything has happened and before it's entirely unclear who, if anyone, is acting inappropriately!!

    terps99

  • SATerp said...

    If we just cut Florida loose and push it off to sea, we can still minimize the damage.

    For the record, I am not in favor of cutting off anyone's dick, let alone America's dick.

    terps99

  • from the article

    So then yesterday, we get this letter from the Justice Department to Florida officials, saying that they believe the purge appears to violate a federal law which prohibits this kind of thing 90 days before an election. And Florida has a primary coming up on August 16th, so we're within that 90-day window. [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION: Florida's primary is Aug. 14.] The Justice Department, in its letter, says because it's covered under the Voting Rights Act, Florida has to submit this voter purge to the federal government before it can go forward. So it's all turning into a real mess right now for the Scott administration.

    The stop part is by law, until it has been cleared by DOJ. Why you wish to defend a Governor who sets himself up as being above the law is really my question. But I guess since he is GOP then he is answering to a higher law, namely, FoxNews, Karl Rove's SuperPac, the Koch brothers, etc.

    Fla. Judge Blocks Parts Of Voter Registration Law : NPR

    A federal judge in Florida has blocked the state from enforcing tough restrictions on groups that conduct voter registration drives. Because of the restrictions, the League of Women Voters and Rock the Vote had stopped registering voters in the state. The groups challenged the new law in court.

    www.npr.org

    TheRawDogg

  • terps99 said...

    I can easily justify sending a letter seeking information to confirm that a state isn't violating major civil rights laws, which is all we're talking about here, but why let any perspective or context get in the way of a partisan rant?

    [And I say that as someone who, in that last major discussion about this issue on a thread I can't find now, was one of the bigger supporters of stronger voter ID laws and made a few dozen posts on the issue.]

    Nah, this is a not too disguised DOJ threat for Florida to not purge the rolls of non-citizens- the same ole democrat mantra. To save one legitimate vote, Holder wants to allow hundreds of illegal votes (votes he counts as Obama votes). To me there should be a way to put aside each suspect ballot for separate verification, and once verified as legal, count it. I believe such a process is in place in most every State and it is called a provisional ballot.

    And Holder needs to explain the loose monitoring in Florida which allowed a white male access to his polling place and the capability to cast a vote in his name in Florida's primary this year. Holder is worse then any AG who has served since John Mitchell.

    Some will not care for Michelle Malkin's review, but it shows how a guy named O'Keefe could have voted as Eric Holder

    This post was edited by tagterp on 6/3/2012 at 2:23 PM

    Michelle Malkin » Eric Holder’s office: O’Keefe group’s video not evidence vote fraud is possible because it’s ‘manufactured’

    Eric Holder

    michellemalkin.com

    tagterp

  • TheRawDogg said...

    The stop part is by law, until it has been cleared by DOJ. Why you wish to defend a Governor who sets himself up as being above the law is really my question. But I guess since he is GOP then he is answering to a higher law, namely, FoxNews, Karl Rove's SuperPac, the Koch brothers, etc.

    Eric Holder does not represent the law, imo! His Office says he does, but his actions for 3 1/2 years say differently.

    tagterp

  • terps99 said...

    For the record, I am not in favor of cutting off anyone's dick, even America's old, withered, non-functioning dick.

    FIFY. Well, except for this old guy, I guess.

    attachment

    SATerp

  • tagterp said...

    Nah, this is a not too disguised DOJ threat for Florida to not purge the rolls of non-citizens- the same ole democrat mantra. To save one legitimate vote, Holder wants to allow hundreds of illegal votes (votes he counts as Obama votes). To me there should be a way to put aside each suspect ballot for separate verification, and once verified as legal, count it. I believe such a process is in place in most every State and it is called a provisional ballot.

    And Holder needs to explain the loose monitoring in Florida which allowed a white male access to his polling place and the capability to cast a vote in his name in Florida's primary this year. Holder is worse then any AG who has served since John Mitchell.

    Some will not care for Michelle Malkin's review, but it shows how a guy named O'Keefe could have voted as Eric Holder

    You're conflating about half a dozen different issues to try proving your point about Holder.

    terps99

  • 99 destroying souls in this thread. The rest of you guys need to regroup and reassess.

    bkmalik

  • bkmalik said...

    99 destroying souls in this thread. The rest of you guys need to regroup and reassess.

    You're off watching badminton during football season, as usual.

    SATerp

  • terps99 said...

    You're conflating about half a dozen different issues to try proving your point about Holder.

    Nah, Holder is terrible. That is my pinion and I am sticking with it!

    tagterp

  • bkmalik said...

    99 destroying souls in this thread. The rest of you guys need to regroup and reassess.

    LOL!

    tagterp

  • the country is soon to be a majority non white and white elders are doing everything in their being to prevent brown people from having any power....its a desperate last ditch effort to save "their" country.....honestly it just might work for another decade or so but eventually they will all die off and we can have the america we all deserve and want

    small pox blankets and the slave trade will soon enough be a thing of our past

    5th and lehigh

  • 5th and lehigh said...

    small pox blankets and the slave trade will soon enough be a thing of our past

    You mean they're not now? You must have some wild parties.

    SATerp

  • SATerp said...

    You mean they're not now? You must have some wild parties.

    unfortunately your kindred would like to rekindle that kind of stuff but its not going to happen...youd be best to join the parties as opposed to fighting them....trust me its a battle your brethren is not going to win

    5th and lehigh

  • 5th and lehigh said...

    the country is soon to be a majority non white and white elders are doing everything in their being to prevent brown people from having any power....its a desperate last ditch effort to save "their" country.....honestly it just might work for another decade or so but eventually they will all die off and we can have the america we all deserve and want

    small pox blankets and the slave trade will soon enough be a thing of our past

    I like how white people are racist towards brown people. Untill a brown person shoots a black kid. Then the brown person becomes a "white hispanic" so that white people can be called racist.

    scudmsl91

  • scudmsl91 said...

    I like how white people are racist towards brown people. Untill a brown person shoots a black kid. Then the brown person becomes a "white hispanic" so that white people can be called racist.

    does it really bother you that much?.....because it shouldnt

    5th and lehigh

  • 5th and lehigh said...

    does it really bother you that much?.....because it shouldnt

    You don't feel comfortable addressing the hypocrisy.

    scudmsl91

  • SATerp said...

    You're off watching badminton during football season, as usual.

    As usual you are very wrong, completely wrong. But totally hilarious. How do you do that?

    TheRawDogg

  • 5th and lehigh said...

    does it really bother you that much?.....because it shouldnt

    WHERE ARE MY TAGS BEST & BRIGHTEST?

    TheRawDogg

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