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Was at Dave and Busters today with my daughter and a friend, and was chatting up one of the workers while standing around. He said the word is White Flint is going to be torn down for mixed use, Kentlands/Rockville Town Center type development. Congo or anyone else clued into Mtgy. County know anything about this?
I heard the same earlier this week.
Its in the works. White Flint is part of the whole County White Flint Master Plan that allows big mixed use developments fast track approval if they conform to the specs in the plan. Mid Pike Plaza is also going to be blown up and will be density mixed use with structured parking.
Basically everything on both sides of the Pike from White Flint north to Mid Pike that hasn't already been re-developed like North Bethesda Market (where Whole Foods & Seasons 52 is) will be blown up in the next few years and will go mixed use density.
Wegman's is in discussions to be part of the White Flint Mall re-development.
This post was edited by Sdog 2 years ago
They plan to start in the next 3 years. That's why Bloomies is going. Lord & Taylor will only remain. Everything including the mall with Shoppers Food Warehouse will be leveled.
Here is a link to all the proposed projects. The White Flint Mall one on here is a little dated, so I think it has evolved. The Mid Pike Plaza re-development is as shown and is already in process.
White Flint is part of Montgomery County, Maryland. The Friends of White Flint is a nonprofit organization dedicated to developing a green, walkable, fun and friendly place to live, work and play.
LOL at Rockville Pike traffic when this happens
The whole idea is to re-construct the road system there to more of a city grid with density around metro.
Here is a doc on it:
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0000004292 00000 n
0000004464 00000 n
0000004702 00000 n
0000004941 00000 n
0000005113 00000 n
0000059478 00000 n
0000059670 00000 n
0000059891 00000 n
0000086194 00000 n
0000135668 00000 n
0000180372 00000 n
0000180611 00000 n
0000180830 00000 n
0000002182 00000 n
0000000756 00000 n
Damn, I miss the White Flint Borders.
I'm in my phone so I'll look at that later, but whole "density around Metro" assumes people travel only by Metro which is never true. Wait until the planning says "1 parking space per unit" and everyone has two cars.
And double LOL at all the new stuff being built on the Strathmore land. Might be part of the master plan but who is selling "from the low 600's" town homes these days?
I don't disagree. Not sure how much worse the Pike can get though. Already a disaster. Montrose Parkway and the new overpass are part of the overall solution. They need more exit/entrance routes in the sector.
Density around metro is what is happening in VA and what will be happening more in MD. It is really one of the few things they can do to combat traffic and encourage less sprawl. They really need a lot more metro lines or extensions of existing ones, but that likely ain't happening in our lifetime beyond the silver line. Hell, they couldn't even get the purple line to be more than light rail.
Lerner's planning on spending 10-20 years to change the mall over to a urban mixed use development. It'll end up being in the same vein as Bethesda or Silver Spring, as opposed to Rockville Town Center or the Kentlands. There are very, very preliminary sketch plans of what Lerner wants to do, but I don't think they'll be doing anything for 3-5 years due to the leases that are in place at the mall. Bloomindale's is leaving because that location is one of their smaller stores and they just finished the new one down in Friendship Heights. It's part of an overall portfolio strategy by Bloomingdale's, not due to the Lerner's kicking them out.
The southern end of Mid-Pike Plaza - Toy's R Us, World Market area, is going to get torn down in July time frame and several hundred apartments over first floor retail are going to be built. About a year after that, the next third of Mid-Pike is going to go, then the final third is somewhat up in the air after that.
Pretty much every property between Montrose and the south end of the mall is going to get torn down and redeveloped into a much higher density over the next 15-25 years. The goal is to turn it into Bethesda North, basically. Federal Realty is expecting to take 7-10 years to redo Mid-Pike, the Lerner's are planning on ~20 years, LCOR is planning another 5-7 years on their stuff, and all of the various other smaller properties are going to take 5-10 years to get going and be finished. JBG is in the planning/design phase of their development next to NoBe Market and that should be breaking ground in 12-24 months. LCOR has been rolling along and they have another start or two planned in the next 24 months or so, and Mid-Pike is breaking ground over the summer. It's going to be a long process before everything is finally redeveloped.
The argument that it's going to create a lot of traffic is total garbage. Look at Bethesda. Look at Silver Spring. They're both well thought out, walkable, transit accessible urban environments. No one bitches and moans about the traffic in those places. People bitch about Tyson's, Reston, and the current iteration of Rockville Pike. Traffic sucks in these places because it's impossible to get anywhere without a car. The master plan for White Flint is well thought out and has the backing to succeed. There's no reason to think traffic will be any worse than it already is. In fact, I'd wager it'll end up getting better as a result of this development.
This post was edited by rvilleterp 2 years ago
I'll also say that Arlington is the best possible example of addition by subtraction when it comes to growth leading to less traffic. If you use the logic of development=traffic, then the RBC corridor should be gridlock 24/7. The same principles that apply to what is going on in White Flint are what were used in the development of the RBC corridor and that place worked out pretty well.
When I lived in that area, I always thought that was a terrible mall. Nothing interesting in the place. Of course, my wife loved it and said I didn't like it because I have terrible taste when it comes to shopping.
As long as they don't level Dietle's I'm all for it.
Federal has already signed IPic Theatres as an anchor for the first phase of mid -pike (will be called Pike & Rose).
Walkable mixed use communities is where all development in the DC area is heading. It really has to. I still can't believe people sit on the beltway, 270 or 66 and have 1-2hr commutes each way. I don't know how they do it.
So the DC area is going to turn into old town Greenbelt?
I remember going there in jeans and a flannel shirt when I was in my 20's and got snooty looks from a lot of women. I said at the time and still kind of feel the same way: Fuck that place.
Don't tell Viper
Upvoted for the use of "Bloomies" and looking forward to seeing artielange's response.
But they have a P.F. Changs! #middleamericastandup
What will be interesting is the migration of baby boomers back in the city. I have seen some private data already showing the shift from the suburban single family home with a yard to single floor urban condo living. Developers are expecting a large migration of empty nest baby boomers back in to the city where they can live on one level, no yard to maintain, and have amenities/culture and public transportation within a short walk.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the capacity continue to fill fairly steadily inside the beltway. It will be interesting to see how the suburban areas evolve. If our government continues to expand, DC population will grow along with it.
While I agree in theory with a lot of your post and I'm generally in favor of high-density mixed-use developments (I love living in a walkable area of Arlington), in my experience, there's a long way to go between Master Planning/Sketch Planning/Initial Design and actual construction. It sounds as though Park and Planning is in general favor of this, but I wouldn't put it past any developer to pull out of the project if it looked like public opinion was shading the other way or if the money to be made wasn't high enough. I'd be surprised if all this development occurs as they've planned it to occur, especially 5-10 years down the road.
That being said, I agree that traffic will probably improve as a result of this development, and I'm sure they'll have to do umpteen Traffic Impact Studies to check on this. It certainly couldn't get much worse.
I think Winterps has a good point about the oversaturation of the condo market. There are available condos in the Half Street area downtown, or on U Street, or near Chinatown. I'd prefer to live in any of those areas over White Flint, and the last think Park and Planning or a developer would want is to have half-full buildings because people don't want to buy $400,000 condos. I'd expect a fair amount of apartment buildings, as opposed to condos.
Are boomers really going to buy a $400,000 condo on U Street or in Chinatown? I'd think they'd rent in Friendship Heights or Glover/Cleveland Park before doing that.
Do you have a link to that data? I'd be interested in reading more about that.
Its proprietary data from some developers I know and others who are pitching a business I am involved in to lease space. There is a distinct difference in the vibrance of the market inside the beltway vs. outside the beltway right now.
Baby Boomers won't necessarily buy a $400k condo in CH or U Street, but you have to look at the big picture and migration patterns. Look at the P. Street Whole Foods or even CH. Those were fringe neighborhoods and now are booming young professional areas. Boomers will move into Dupont and other neighborhoods and the demographics of neighborhoods will continue to shift just as they have the last 15 years with the blighted areas being pushed east towards PG county. Petworth, NoMa, Shaw - these are ll the next wave of gentrification (already underway).
A lot is based on demographics of recent sales/purchases in the metro area and surveys performed by the developers.
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