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I don't attend many church parties, so the subject rarely comes up.
In all seriousness, I do not go around in everyday life screaming anti-religious rants. If someone is having a conversation with me and presses me on my opinion of religion (almost never happens) I'll give it to them. For the most part, I just snicker at them in my head. My family are the only ones I actively try to annoy with my opinions because it's fun to get them riled up.
People that don't understand the bible as historical document are ignorant fucks.
There is of course no way to know for certain because it didn't happen that way, but I find it hard to believe we would still be living in caves were it not for religion. More importantly, I'm of the belief that it is holding back our advancement as a society now.
Of course you do.
We were created in the image of God . Our highest aspiration is to actualize that image. In today's society we have situational/rational morality. If it feels good do it.
Genesis 3 is the story of Adam and Eve in the garden eating of the forbidden fruit. Satan tempts them that they would become like God and have a knowledge or could decide good and evil. Before this point God told Adam what was good and what was evil and Adam obeyed. At the point of eating the fruit, allegorical to making a decision, Adam rejected what God had told him what was right and what is wrong. He became like God because up until then God was the one who made this decision. Satan has wanted to be thought of as God --his pride. It is mans pride which rejects God so that he can do what he wants to do when he wants to. This "New Age" teaching of self actualization is actually very old. People have really only two choices in this follow God or follow Satan. Because in the end you will be with one or the other.
For such a time as this.
The bible operates on a multitude of levels. Historical being only one of them. Those that only see it on one level are like those who only see the world in two dimensions.
The lack of unified belief on any front is holding us back, and religion is no exception. If you asked me my religion, I would say that I was an Entropist, so any benevolent social order that united a large group of people for a common good would be above my expectations. I just don't think that it's reasonable to expect enough commonality among an entire nation or a world to do better than that.
Aaaand this is the unfortunate bullshit that millions of children have to sit and suffer through, brainwashed with no choice in the matter through no fault of their own. It's sad and disgusting.
Why don't you offer some actual insight or analysis instead of just calling it BS? You aren't really contributing a lot by doing this and you just lose credibility
So your still mad that you had to go to Sunday School or CCD or whatever. Sad that you havent grown out of your anger over that.
You want me to analyze why it's bullshit that children are taught they only have two choices in life, to follow god or satan? Do I really have to do that? Have I stumbled on to packpride?
As for losing credibility, I'll still sleep well tonight.
I'm sitting this one out.
classlessthug: I have too much on my plate to worry about the fact that my junk intimidates some needle D undergrad.
15 sentences, 0 facts. I love how religious people just ramble on and on about crap that only they believe in thinking it's a valid argument.
Actually I would like to hear why you think people would have been able to move from just small family structures, living in caves, to forming civilized society without religion. Why would one family fighting for land and food with no common language or religion decide to work together and not kill each other.
i love how atheists completely disregard anything anyone religious says as invalid because it is something they don't believe in.
This post was edited by dannyterp 13 months ago
im hearing pg plaza is the spot!
Honestly, I don't have a clear-cut answer for that. It's not something I've given a great amount of thought to. Why would religion have to be the only common bond that ever occurred though?
More importantly, I think it's clear nothing in history has caused more death/war than religious differences. What purpose is it serving our society now, even if you are correct and I'll concede that maybe you are (although I'm not sold on it) that it served a purpose thousands of years ago.
I would argue that humans are pretty provincial, capable, and willing to commit war against each other for just about any reason. There is a history of many horrible wars fought without any religious basis.
Once again, I see your point, but the human race is just not as advanced and sophisticated as you think it is, with or without religion.
This post was edited by WTF 13 months ago
It's really hard to pick who is worse, loud PITA religious people or loud PITA atheists.
Actually it can be argued that nationalism has caused as much if not more "death/war" than religion. Here is a list of people that have caused a few deaths and had nothing to do with religion: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Most Roman leaders and Genghis Khan to name a few.
As a Protestant, you personalize Adam and presumably believe he was a real person who actually existed at the beginning of creation.
The Hebrew Adam literally means "man."
I would try to convince you that he wasn't a literal person, that there were two different creation stories in Genesis, etc., etc., but I'm not sure the effort would be fruitful. Little fruitful pun there, sorry.
I think you do a horrendous disservice to the evolution of moral philosophy by saying the only morality nowadays is "If it feels good do it." That's a terrible simplification of Enlightenment moral thinking.
You posit a rather cruel God who would endow his creation with rational thought and then command them upon penalty of eternal suffering not to use that greatest of gifts, gifts given to no other creation on this Earth.
"And I try to har-mo-nize with songs the lonesome sparrow sings...
There are no kings inside the Gates of Eden."
Job, to Yahweh (Job 42): "By hearsay I had heard of you, but now my eye has seen you. Therefore I disown what I have said, and repent in dust and ashes."
Gospel of John, Chapter 20: Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe."
Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."
Two instances of the Divine upholding man's need for a rational basis for faith. Sure, Christ says "Blessed are those..." (the writer saying the optimal situation is pure faith, faith without sight), but he still shows the wounds.
It's the whole damn reason that Augustine and Aquinas, especially Aquinas, tried to harmonize Plato and Aristotle's genius with Christian purposes. The whole Scholastic movement was based on trying to square those two traditions of Western society together. Aquinas realized what a mess you'd have if you abandoned philosophy and rational inquiry.
Almost 150 posts only after 1 episode?!?!?
I'll jump in. I'm not atheist exactly more agnostic I guess. I was baptized catholic to appease my grandparents but thats as far as I got. My grandparents raised my dad and his siblings in a very devout catholic household. My dad served as an altar boy and all that. I don't believe in any one religion on earth or heaven or anything like that, but I do think that somewhere along the line (be it at the big bang or prior) something had to come from something. I disagree strongly with the idea that organized religion is necessary for some kind of morality. There are millions of people who don't follow any sort of religion to back that up.
People of faith have every right to believe whatever they want on that principal, and their opinions relating in that way should be valued. Its only when the idea of faith stems into the idea of fact that I take issue with. You have every right to believe Jesus is the messiah and died for your sins, and that following the code of the church will get you to heaven. You can believe God wrote the bible 2000 years ago if you want. What people of faith can not do is claim any of it as fact though outside the church and affect other people's lives with it, or say that everything in the bible is somehow some express law for all of america (Looking at you bigturtle). If atheists would stop worrying about people having religion, and religious people would just leave their religion in the church then everything would be fine, regardless of personal beliefs.
If you're teaching children that they should never make their own decisions, and instead listen to God for everything, then I have nothing to say because we will never be able to accept the others' arguments.
You and WTF are both correct that religion is not the only reason wars are waged. How does that make wars that have been, are now, and will be in the future brought about over religious differences any more acceptable?
Like most people, I would love to live in a world without war (not happening). However, I can wrap my brain around a war taking place over land or political difference as opposed to "my religion is the one true religion and you must
follow". Again, what purpose does religion serve today? People can be moral without it. People can be charitable without it. The faith that some people put in god, I'd rather put in all of us.
My guess would be that a guy who doesn't beleive in the Bible WOULD BE a lot more fun at parties, so yes.
"It's just so hard," Greivis said. "It's my heart, my love. Maryland made me who I am."
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