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The amount of money I steal from my employer by spending 7 hours a day posting on the Internet instead of working dwarves all my other malfeasance.
I don't think comparing downloading music with dog fighting is a fair comparison. Like I said I think its more in line with underage drinking, as far as severity of a crime goes, from my point of view.
So the analogy for me (if I was 17) would be. "Yes I know I'm 17 and can't have this beer for a few more years but I'm here with all my friends, and they've been drinking them for a while and everyone else is drinking it now. I know I probably shouldn't because being drunk at my age isn't the safest or most responsible thing and could have bad consequences for those around me. But EVERYONE is doing it and there's nothing wrong with them. There's also some hot chicks who totally want it over there. Screw it give me the beer."
The issue here is that most people my age don't view music as something they should pay for, and therefore view the "illegal" moniker as a technicality. I'd argue the view point of most people my age is that music itself should be free and musicians should make their money off of live shows. I know that leaves the music production industry kind of screwed, but industries go out of business all the time and music production(as far as labels go) is probably on its way out.
This should pretty much be the end of the thread. I'm constantly amazed by how much I get paid to do nothing.
your appeal of ethos and appeal of logos are both fairly lacking. maybe try pathos?
I think your interpretation of "doing what is right" is different than a lot of other people There are lots of laws that I know you don't follow (like most people) and you're making a conscious decision to do that. Comparing this to Vick's dogfighting ring is ludicrous.
I understand your stance because it pertains to your line of work, but to make judgments on people simply because they torrent music is wrong imo.
How do you feel about Trent Reznor?
I get a water cup from chipotle every time and then fill it up with soda. Does that make me morally wrong? You know as well as I that just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. Its only the preconceived social standards that music is something you should pay for, that makes downloading music illegal. So if I grew up in an era that told me that music isn't something you should have to pay for, do I have a morality issue or one that just clashes with the current legal standards?
The other issue I have with the dog fighting analogy is that that analogy refers to certain demographic, not a whole generation. EVERYBODY of my generation downloads music, black, white, rich and poor. So 20 years from now when we are all making laws and still have those viewpoints will our opinion that music should be free be morally wrong then, even if its legally right?
They're wrong. You don't get to decide that.
My analogy was not about severity, it was about rationalizing what you know is wrong and blaming it on upbringing or society or something other than yourself.
The rest of your post is just dumb. Sorry.
classlessthug: I have too much on my plate to worry about the fact that my junk intimidates some needle D undergrad.
Spotify doesn't do anything for me that Youtube or Pandora can't, and I don't pay for those.
The retail cost of music is much higher than I am willing to pay for it. Spotify is much closer, but still more than I care to pay. I don't mind paying for content that I value and use a lot, music is not valuable to me, because the free alternatives(free spotify, youtube, pandora, grooveshark, not torrenting), are basically just as good.
I know you work in a similar industry so you have your viewpoints.
People my age and of my generation don't know or think that downloading music is wrong. Thats the issue
This is much more offensive than all the other crap being mentioned in this thread.
OK, the dog fighting is a little worse...
Who does? You? The population older than 25? Lawmakers?
I'm not familiar what the Trent Reznor issue. Look, there are things that are illegal for a reason, some of which being questionable (marijuana.) But setting your self-serving nature aside, music is not a charity. People produce it for a living, artists, producers, guitar stringers, PA's who make copies of contracts... If you can't rationalize why taking their content for free is wrong, there's not much I can say.
I think the Vick comparison is spot on. I'm not saying they are equal crimes, I'm saying the reason R&W is rationalizing it is the same reason Vick did. It's all he ever knew. Doesn't make it right.
I know you think you're young and in touch unlike these "old" 20 and 30 somethings you're arguing with but again, you just sound like a child bothering the adults. I won't act like it's the most reprehensible thing in the world as some here are but it's undoubtedly a douche move.
I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right?
Holy shit this is so stupid.
First of all yes it is wrong to steal soda from chipotle. They are doing you a courtesy giving you free water and they you use that to steal from them. Classy.
And it's not a social standard that causes music to cost money. It's fucking economics. They spend money to make something and put a price on it. You steal it. That's stealing.
You are such an entitled brat.
For the people vehemently opposing torrenting, do you ever stream games online from firstrow or other like sites?
Information is no longer a necessity. We live in a world now where information is accessible pretty much anytime at the end of our fingertips. It is not the consumer's responsibility to abide by archaic rules and eat up propaganda campaigns that call copying music or filesharing "theft". It is the business' responsibility to adapt to new technologies.
Some very smart musicians (who deserve money) are finding ways to cut out the middlemen who just make a profit off of their talent.
Personally, I find it very insulting when I buy a new blu-ray and then am forced to sit through a "STEAL THIS AND DIE" message from the FBI accusing me of wrongdoing when I played "by the rules".
There are a variety of reasons for someone to torrent imo.
Good lord, man. Putting water in water cups and not soda in water cups is what separates us from the animals.
You're the reason most employees don't trust me when I actually use the water cup for water.
I'm with Historicus on the cable thing--The Shield went off the air years ago, but I pay for FX through my cable bill (and watch their shows frequently). So I'll watch The Shield on a streaming site, but not download it to my computer. That might be a distinction without a difference, though.
I got free HBO for a year, which was nice, so I can use that HBOGo function to catch up with Game of Thrones, watch The Sopranos, etc. I think a refined HBOGo model will be standard for cable channels within a decade, particularly with the rise in internet speeds and computer storage capacity.
"And I try to har-mo-nize with songs the lonesome sparrow sings...
There are no kings inside the Gates of Eden."
Again, thats a demographic issue not a generational one. The vast majority of the population regardless of demographic believes dog fighting is wrong. That is not at all the case with downloading music.
Stealing soda from Chipotle is wrong, but more importantly, it means you're a colossal douche. Get the fuck out.
I would think "stealing" time from an employer is somewhat a gray area. Now if you are billing clients for the time ...
I was a federal contractor where our timesheets were submitted as bills. I stayed off the board during working hours because I knew how easy it would be to get caught and I knew that the feds wouldn't play games if I did.
And companies have GOT to get better at putting their old media/shows out in forms that I can buy (streaming or DVD).
The fact that I can buy numerous seasons of "The King of Queens" or "JAG" on DVD and not find a legal DVD or Bluray copy of the "Recess" cartoon from my childhood is a hanging crime.
If I have kids, how am I supposed to raise them properly without DVDs of "Recess"? Read to them? Care about their schoolwork?
Um, how about the producers of the thing you're stealing and the government we entrust to enforce laws?
This post was edited by strOterp 13 months ago
Stealing time from an employer isn't even close in this case. For most of us salaried workers, they're paying us a salary for the service we provide - not how long we take to provide that service. If they're happy with what I provide over that time period, then I'm not going to feel guilty for playing minesweeper during time that I could be providing the service for which I'm being paid.
Who are you to decide which laws are "questionable" and which aren't? Just because you have a staked interest in this particular issue doesn't make you an authority on morals regarding this topic in my opinion.
One could make the case that filesharing increases a band's popularity, thus making their tours more profitable. By the way, this is coming from someone who pays for music on my Amazon Cloud drive. I do it because it's convenient, not because I agree with it.
See link for Trent's stand. More artists need to embrace this strategy. I would definitely be more open to paying an artist directly for their talents as opposed to scummy, greedy middlemen.
I agree that he didn't argue his point in the best way (and lol @ soda in water cup WTF man?), but if you can't see the difference between this and dogfighting, then I could rightfully say you're no different for things such as jaywalking.
Nine Inch Nails rocker talks to News.com about the future of music on the Internet, about leaving the record labels behind and about convincing performer Saul Williams to give away his latest album. Read this article by Greg Sandoval on CNET News.
This post was edited by turtleinchains 13 months ago
Yes, that makes you morally wrong. You're stealing that soda. Stop trying to justify your self-centered attitude with silly "that's how it is today" social standard "argument". The underage drinking analogy makes no sense unless you're stealing the beer.
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