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I searched the net. Am I correct that they can be had for $400?
I bought mine for $450 two years ago but today $600 is closer to the going rate for a stock one. Out of the box they look like this:
Most people end up doing a bunch of upgrades to them, though these are largely cosmetic in nature. On mine I added the pistol grip, replaced the stock, replaced the trigger group, added the rails, added the front grip, and added the muzzle brake. About an extra $500 all total, with doing all the work myself (which was very easy)
You don't have to do all the after market work on them, I did mine gradually over the past 18 months. It functioned perfectly out of the box, all of my work was for personal preference and better control when firing heavier loads.
Also of interest might be a VEPR 12 if you don't want to do any work on it yourself and have a slightly bigger budget. They are about $1000, already have a pistol grip and top rail.VEPRs are also slightly higher quality than Saigas. (to be fair though, my saigas are still better quality than just about any other AK I have seen).
This post was edited by Dr_Hobo 16 months ago
My Beretta A400 is used for shooting trap and skeet, and is not well suited to home defense, due to the long barrel (peering around corners in tight spaces).
Here's something on the Remington Versa Max tactical, which shoots just as fast as the Beretta A400 and is reasonably new to the market. I picked one up (not bought, just to see what it was like) at a gun show and put it back down. It is clear that it is designed for just one purpose, right tool for right job.
The most significant different between the sporting models and the tactical model is that the Versa Max Tactical will initially only be offered with a receiver capable of chambering 2.75" and 3" 12 gauge shotgun shells, whereas the sporting models also chambes 3.5" magnum 12 gauge shells. Remington may have made this decision to shave of the extra weight and costs added by the tactical features.
The Versa Max Tactical includes a picatinny rail for mounting optics and forward barrel-clamp side rails for mounting accessories, such as flashlights. The charging handle and magazine release are tactical-sized. The extended magazine holds 7+1 rounds of 2.75" shells. The barrel is 22" with vent rib and comes with an IC and Tactical (ported) choke. The stock is black synthetic with overmolded rubber grips.
The MSRP is $1,399 (the same as the synthetic sporting Versa Max model).
I've never heard of a Saiga before, I must say it looks pretty cool. I imagine with the drum, after a day of shooting, your shoulder gets quite a workout.
This post was edited by hokthu 16 months ago
Those drums blow my mind. How do they not melt the gun? I ran 20 shells through my o/u the other day over the course of about ten mins and the thing was en fuego
Hokthu - It used to, but the extra work I did on it really helps. The stock in particular made a huge difference, the pad is good and the stock itself has an extremely stiff recoil absorbing spring built in (the entire stock is essentially a shock absorber). With low brass birdshot, the recoil really isn't much of anything at all, even before the extra work.
PKP 313 - the barrel certainly gets hot, but it doesn't cause any problems or damage. Here is a video of a guy doing 100 rounds in about a minute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejy58DCoYKE
Picked up a Kahr CW9
The landowner where I hunt let me run a clip through his Armalite. It was re-freaking-diculous. The reticle didn't even move on the target. You can get a 3 inch group while going ape on the trigger.
BIG BOB COSTAS is not a fan of this thread
Apartments have thin walls as do some homes. Bullets can go a long way many occasions thru walls hitting things and people not necessarily targets. Most people are not pistol trained, and particularly not pistol trained under stress so getting a shot to stop an intruder might not work. In fact some caliber bullets pass right through an attacker without killing/stopping the attacker. I've heard many stories about .38 cal bullets going through an intruder who then stabbed a home owner to death.
A semi-automatic shotgun loaded No 4 shot followed by double buck shot rounds to finish off a perp(s) is a better choice for the untrained person.
Take an NRA firearms course with their guns. The emphasis is safety. The go to a range and try out a number of rental pieces. Then if you are comfortable buy what you know how to handle plus about 1000 rounds, just to be sure you have enough...!
This post was edited by tagterp 16 months ago
Bob Costas is an a-hole for how he brought up his opinion.
Do you have a credible link for that...? The reason I ask is there is no data base for crimes averted because a home owner was armed which seems relevent information to your point.
That said every gun owner ought to have first passed a safety course to qualify on the basics of responsible gun ownership before a sale is final
Various States have magazine capacity limits so buying, not necessarily owning, could be a problem. Maryland restricts sales of guns equiped with magazines with capacities of more then 17 bullets. Easy to get around though...
I don't think cops like the idea of non-cops having guns. They don't like going into homes with guns because it may compromise their safety, whether or not the gun ownership is a benefit to the owner. Cop safety first, public safety second.
Usually you can buy the gun, you just can't buy the larger capacity mag. California sucks - 10 round limit on everything.
Been thinking of picking up a Saiga 7.62x39 AK converted
Probably pick up some other things also soon but not sure what yet
If the argument is the ability to accurately point a shoulder mounted shotgun vs a pistol, I'm going to agree to disagree. But either way, having patterned plenty of turkey loads at 30, 60 and 90 feet, I can say one thing confidently about #4 shot... At apartment distances, ie 20 feet or less, that shotgun load just leaves one big hole. You don't get 30 inches of coverage until about 25 yards. Even unchoked short barrels have pretty tight patterns at close range. And you're not going to get big penetration til you get to those rounds of buckshot. That's where I feel better having Nate Dogg-esque 16 in da clip and one in da hole. Well mine's 15 but you get the point.
I don't think someone should deploy a handgun for home defense til they've run through a few hundred rounds at the range. At that point, they're gonna hit the perp.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by PKP 313 16 months ago
I live in Kansas. The hillbillies around here would never let a mag limit happen.
I got my eye on a new Remington 700 VTR .308 I got to shoot one the other day. They changed it to a triangular barrel with all on the weight on the bottom and ported the op of the last 1.5inches. No barrel rise.
Just curious, if it's a varmint setup, why .308?
I would look into a VEPR over a saiga. I have each, and (as I said earlier in this thread) the VEPR is higher quality. Smoother trigger, heavier barrel, thicker receiver. Slightly more expensive, but worth the extra hundred or two. Plus the wood thumbhole stock most of them have out of the box is quite nice.
If you do go with a saiga (and they are still are higher quality than almost all other AKs), get it unconverted and do it yourself. Its very easy to do, cheaper, and you get to make it exactly how you want it.
It's a crossbreed. They call it a Varmint-Tactical Rifle. I mainly want it for Mule Deer and the range.
Got ya. On my lease, the longest shot I've taken is 90 yards. Which makes the landowner's 7mm mag a little comical, unless there's a secretive herd of bison in SC. Question: whenever I take my Midwest/west muley/elk hunt, would the guides want me to leave the .30-06 at home? The 150 grain shoots nice and flat, and I'm pretty good out to 250yd with 180gr.
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