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Politically speaking, I think both Murray's and Ryan's plans are both non-starters, but I think that's the point...there's still a lot of sparring left.
Also, it bears repeating...if the Dems succeed in raising income or corporate tax rates, you can bet their estimates for revenue from said increases are going to be way high.
Wealthy people (and corporations) always have the last word on how or if their taxes will go up.
Please spell out falls "under the constitution" because that's another crap argument to me. The world has evolved slightly in the last 220 years. And the Constitution was built to evolve with it.
And to point to the biggest cop out in all this mess, the Ryan plan ignores fixing social security. Because entitlement reform is some Pubs talk about but don't actually want to do, because they don't want to piss off tens of millions of voters.
At least the Dems and their tax hikes are up front about their douchebaggery.
Late last week, Obamacare regulators added more than 800 pages to an ever-growing document that will govern your healthcare. The bureaucrats’ work product now prints out to 20,000 pages — nearly eight times the length of the infamous original bill:
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Two additional things Pethokoukis also said in his critique:
"Paul Ryan isn’t a backbencher, he’s chairman of the House Budget Committee. As such, the budget plan he released today is a document of politics, a document of compromise. Yes, the updated “Path to Prosperity” contains the core elements of Ryanomics — tax reform, premium-support Medicare, Medicaid block granting, patient-driven health care. On these rocks, Ryan has smartly built the GOP economic agenda. ...
I would love to see Ryan set loose to create a plan far bolder and more innovative — even if it doesn’t reduce debt quite as quickly on paper — than what, apparently, many House GOPers are ready for."
In other words, Ryan's plan is a political compromise within the GOP, not Ryan's ideal plan. A couple of examples demonstrate this point. First, all indications are that Ryan wanted to raise the retirement age for Medicare but the moderates in the House wouldn't go alon g with this. Additonally, Ryan has proposed SS reform in his own Path to Prosperity. In terms of the plan balancing in tens years, that was also forced upon Ryan by the conservatives that demanded this occur and which Boehner agreed to earlier this year.
Attacking his repeal of Obamacare is legitimate, nevertheless, although unlikely, you never know how long Obamacare will survive. Most of the bad things with O-care were backend loaded and will just be coming into effect in the next year or so. Plus, it's clear that it was horrible written and will likley result in all kinds of unintended consequences. I think O-Care is going to have a very rough go of it over the next couple of years. Will it ever be repealed? Probably not, but I would never say never, esepcially if it becomes the train wreck that many suspect it will.
Finally, I very much enjoy Jim Pethokoukos' perspective on financial issues. He's a savvy, smart guy on finances. I see that you apparently trust him as well. accordingly, let's see what he has to say about Patty Murray's and the Dems handiwork.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Bradleyfan 13 months ago
It's pretty off-topic, but since this is the political thread, I wanted to post this because I laughed -- CNN just ran a story on the Red Tide killing a bunch of manatees in Florida. My two favorite lines:
"The manatees have been experiencing a brutal death, where the toxic algae gets into their brains. [...] It is incurable."
"Scientists are unsure, but believe it is caused by global warming or a wind-direction thing."
"It's just so hard," Greivis said. "It's my heart, my love. Maryland made me who I am."
Obama's charm offensive -- real or fake?
Read conservative news, blogs and opinion about Barack Obama, media, Republicans, Stunt and White House from The Weekly Standard, the must read magazine available in online edition.
You mean when it was passed, nobody actually knew what was in it?
Your Democratic leadership at work, America!
In other news, this kinda skewers everyone, but especially some guy named Krugman...
From the blog The Exchange: By Laurence Kotlikoff There are four dangerous fiscal fables afloat. The first is that taxes can be cut to raise revenues and lower the deficit. The second is that spending can be raised to raise revenues and lower the deficit. … Continue reading →
The "Scientists are unsure" sentence is really, really funny if you read it in Lionel Hutz's voice.
"And I try to har-mo-nize with songs the lonesome sparrow sings...
There are no kings inside the Gates of Eden."
Lol at raising the corporate rates in particular. Horrendous idea. Are the Dems even pushing for that?
The article posted above on Murray's plan isn't very detailed, but had this...while not a rate increase, eliminating deductions would probably cause the same effect:
Murray’s plan calls for $1.85 trillion in additional deficit reduction over the next decade, Democrats said Tuesday. It calls for $975 billion in spending cuts and an additional $975 billion would be raised through an overhaul of the Tax Code by eliminating certain tax deductions, including ones typically claimed by high earners and corporations.
I don't think anyone's wanting to raise the 35% number, but there's tons of populist tripe about ZOMG CORPORATE LOOPHOLES and OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS that people don't understand at all but still want taken away.
“He’s been very bipartisan in his approach,”
“The President has always been very respectful of the views of the Republicans and the Congress, their leadership and their membership,” Pelosi said. “He has always tried to accommodate them.”
I'm guessing Dems are not including garbage like HUD tax credits in their definition of "CORPORATE LOOPHOLES"
Why do you assume that just because 70% of Lockhead's revenue comes from the government, that it is okay money to be spent? The Defense industry is notorious for cost overruns and waste.
This post was edited by tagterp 13 months ago
I think it is not a large leap to see the CIA is very much involved with the defense of the Country, so therefore I believe is covered by the responsibility of the Federal government as outlined in the Constitution to provide for the defense of the Nation.
It seems that many of the executives of these firms are friends of the Administration
The most important aspect of corporate tax reform is to harmonize it with the top personal rates which are ensnaring so many small businesses operating as pass-thrus. While they're up to 40% +, US corp rate is 35%, but effectively much less. Raising corporate rates is literally self-defeating so the fair share crowd needs to figure out how small businesses paying the top rates can get them down.
I'm fine with laws and requirements that come from the Constitution, (at least I won't bitch at you about them) and the amendments that have been passed, with one exception. I believe that the Commerce Clause has been twisted beyond recognition by politicians to justify any spending they want to do, without regard to the original intent of the framers. Hey, if you want to have an EPA, OSHA, Education, Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, HHS, NLRB, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, ObamaCare, yadda yadda, then amend the Constitution to give it a basis other than, 'Wow, what a nice thing to do for people,' because as we can see, bestowing largesse on the 'needy' ain't working.
This plan is for our office/admin employees only. About 13 total. My brother handles the specifics, but there is nothing unusual about our plan.
Social Security: general welfare + congressional taxing power
Nah, I'm not going for that 'general welfare' crap interpretation. That's got as many loopholes as the 'health of the mother' interpretation for abortion.
FWIW, I think investment in education, particularly early childhood education, is far and away the best method of lessening the financial burden of future generations. That alone makes federal dollars going to education worthwhile. Now, to administer these dollars there does need to be some form of agency or organization to manage it. And thus the Dept of Education.
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