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Of course she would. 99% of guys would be uncomfortable doing that, too.
WTF? Was that a double post hours and hours later? Or did you type out the exact same post hours later not realizing you had typed that earlier today?
Marines aren't soldiers :p
Yes a technicality but true, lol.
but back to the point, there is something to be said for both sides - and yes I served, in a combat MOS (artillery forward observer attached to light infantry companies).
The fact is many women have served in combat situations in the last 10 years. Another fact is women have not actually served in combat units (i.e. artillery, infantry, armor). There are going to be issues, lets not kid ourselves. At the same time, when hundreds of women have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last decade, it is very hard to argue not to at least try this...
To add to my argument, one thing I feel VERY strongly about is the PT test. If woman want to serve in combat units, they must be forced to take the same exact PT test, not a separate test graded for females.
Posted on my phone and hit "post". Couple hrs later I pick up my phone and the posting screen is still up so I figured it never went through
Their periods attract bears
Couple other points:
The Israelis used to allow women in combat roles. They abolished the program for two reasons:
1) Islamic fighters would not surrender to women.
2) Unit discipline was dramatically compromised when a woman was wounded.
FWIW, #2 is the most convincing argument to me. I don't buy the physical strength shit and "we're not comfortable."
Source? Because I'm pretty sure the Israelis still allow women in combat roles...
I forget where I read and don't have time to search again at the moment, but basically they cut the program in 2001 for those reasons and the current state of affairs is that they are piloting a female-only battalion that has actually seen one gunfire exchange in 2012.
Edit: So basically they have done away with the notion of mixed units in which men are the overwhelming majority.
This post was edited by ledterrapin 18 months ago
No chance that happens. Physical standards will be modified for "relevance" making it easier for women to pass. It's what happened when police and fire were integrated. BTW--not sure whether that's a bad thing or not. I don't really have an opinion on this other than my skepticism of anything coming out of this admin that sounds like "fundamental transformation."
So basically you were completely wrong when you said that Israel abolished the use of women in combat roles? No such express prohibition exists. To the contrary:
- The 2000 Equality amendment to the Israeli Military Service law states that "The right of women to serve in any role in the IDF is equal to the right of men."
- Presently, approximately 90% of all roles in the IDF are open to female candidates.
- Clause 16A of the military service law requires that female combat soldiers serve 3 years of mandatory service, and continue in reserves service up to age 38, even if they become mothers. These are essentially identical to the terms of service for male combat soldiers.
- Each year, 1,500 female combat soldiers are drafted into the IDF.
- Women currently make up 3% of the IDF's combat soldiers.
So no, Israel doesn't have some huge blanket prohibition on women serving in combat.
Is there an argument to be made that it's NOT a bad thing?
A good response from FP.com to the WSJ op-ed yesterday.
In response to yesterday's WSJ op-ed by a former Marine who argues that combat shouldn't be open to women because of the gross things guys do in the field, Diane Mazur, a law professor at the University of Florida and author of "A More Perfect Military," says: "If we accept this one, I suppose women shouldn't be medics, doctors, or nurses either, because women shouldn't be exposed to the raw reality of the human body. I know arguments ebb and flow, but this one is more than a hundred years old."
I was referring to when they inevitably change the physical requirements, and I just don't know how relevant the current standards are for actual war fighting. Maybe they're fine-tuned for it and any change means a diminution on fighting ability, but more probably, there's a bunch of inertia built in that does stuff b/c it's always been done that way. I just hope the emphasis remains on ass-kickery independent of gender impacts. Or is it kick-assery?
It's a good response if you like responses to completely miss the point.
Phatboy if you had any balls I'd meet you at the AFA Boxing gym and have Coach Weichers put some gloves on us.
Here's the old school perspective.
General Robert H. Barrow, 27th Commandant of the Marine Corps testimony before the SASC on Women in Combat. June 1991.
Or as phatphelix would call it: the new school perspective.
Israel absolutely still has combat roles for women (admittedly they're a slim minority of the total combat force).
They'll be a real liability when we finally take Canada.
actually you are completely wrong because they don't serve in assault units that would be in the front line of a battle. Do you understand the difference between an assault unit and a support unit?
Women are in combat support roles all the time, including artillery, and guard positions. Most of the push back from this board is talking about assault units.
Pic Sigs are for losers.
No, there's a primarily female IDF infantry battalion (the only one, I think).
Certainly women make up a very slim minority of all IDF combat roles, but lets not pretend there aren't any women at all in combat roles in the IDF. That's just not true.
Not talking about female only units we were talking about mix gender units. That is what was said in the post before that Isreal stopped using mixed gender units because it lowered combat effectiveness.
It's a mixed gender (mostly female) battalion.
I'm not saying it's the norm in the IDF (far from it), but it does exist.
Meet Shir Landau. Shir is originally from England. She serves in the Caracal Battalion, the IDFs only co-ed combat unit. For the past eight months, Shi
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