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How many post-2002 players crack rotation of Final Four teams?

  • I think someone mentioned this somewhere after the BC loss, that Greivis and Jordan are the only players we've had since our championship that could have started or logged major minutes for the 2001-02 awesome teams. Heck, I'd throw 1999 in there too. I was intrigued by it and actually thought about it. It's sad :(

    Gilchrist - He was an excellent back-up to Blake on the still very good 2003 team. I think he definitely would have played a lot on those Final Four teams. People remember him going nuts and ruining the 2005 season, but he was also a very dynamic guard who was pretty bad-ass in the clutch. If there was a weakness to those final four squads it was the lack of a back-up point for Blake. Nicholas or Juan would have to do it when Blake got a breather and if Blake ever got into foul trouble, we were dead. See, Duke: 2001. Fortunately, it didn't happen often. Remember the 2000 game against NC State when Blake was sick and they tried to hold him out and Danny Miller was running the offense, and NC State had like five steals leading to open dunks in the first couple minutes and Blake had to play? And then we came back from like 20 points down to win?

    Caner-Medley - The pre-injury freshman Caner-Medley could have definitely spelled a Mouton on the 2002 team and given the same production Danny Miller did, in my opinion. Post-injury Nik? Hmmm, maybe.

    Those are the only two I feel comfortable saying were good enough players to play for those teams other than Greivis and Jordan. That's just so sad. In nine years, we've produced four damn players the caliber those squads had. Disgusting.

    Other I considered:

    DJ - Basically Byron Mouton. He's the only one I could see playing on that team, maybe 8-10 minutes a game tops.

    Jones - No need for a 3-point shooter who can't play D when you already have good shooters in Juan, Drew and Blake.

    Gist - Solid player, but nowhere near Wilcox's level. Comparable to Tahj, maybe.

    Hayes - A worse Drew Nicholas.

    On the other hand, bench players from those teams would probably be starters or key backups now. Guys like Laron Cephas (RIP) and Brian Watkins would totally start for these recent teams. Dave Neal was a starter for us. He would have gotten less playing time than Earl Badu in 2002.

    ugotwilcoxed ●

  • Strawberry, Gist, and NCM would all easily play, it's pretty ridiculous to say otherwise.

    Tabe ●

  • Yeah, thinking about it, I think I agree on Gist. He could have been the Tahj Holden guy, better in certain areas, worse in others.

    Pre-injury Nik plays on those teams and plays a lot. Post-injury Nik would play, but a smaller role.

    D.J. could play on those teams, but he wouldn't be that big a contributor. He'd basically come in if Gary got pissed at Byron or Drew for not playing D or something. That's it.

    ugotwilcoxed ●

  • Can't wait for parlay to stop in and tell us how much better Chris McCray was than Drew Nicholas and how much Dino Gregory's intangibles made him better than Wilcox.

    ugotwilcoxed ●

  • Sometimes it's funny how the 5th option on a loaded team can do no wrong but make him the 1st option on a sub-par team and he's pretty much hated.

    Chip Kelly --> NFL --> Fired --> Maryland

    Hogie ●

  • NCM was really really underrated for whatever reason. He would be an awesome 3rd guy on a top team. In 2005 he took Duke out behind the woodshed in Cameron.

    WMTerp12 ●

  • Does Jordan even start on our championship team? Greivis probably plays in a 3 gaurd lineup with Dixon and Blake. Mouton comes off the bench.

    WMTerp12 ●

  • WMTerp12 said...

    Does Jordan even start on our championship team?

    Hell no.

    bkmalik

  • What was Nik's injury? I have forgotten, was it that bad. Posters make it seem like he was a different player afterwards.

    AddictedTurtle

  • Severely dislocated his ankle vs. MSU in the Sweet 16 game where Blake got stuffed by the rim in a game we ended up losing by 1.

    Nik might even have broken it too, but whatever happened it was really effed up.

    bkmalik

  • bkmalik said...

    Severely dislocated his ankle vs. MSU in the Sweet 16 game where Blake got stuffed by the rim in a game we ended up losing by 1.

    Nik might even have broken it too, but whatever happened it was really effed up.

    And Blake missed pretty much the same shot with a couple of seconds left that Lucifer made last year to knock us out. A wide open 3 from the top of the key. We were very close to 3 straight Final 4s (of course we still would have had to win one more)

    terpfan83 ●

  • If Gist is a poor man's Wilcox, comparable to Tajh, then so is Ibekwe.

    YNCMT

  • WMTerp12 said...

    Does Jordan even start on our championship team?

    bkmalik said...

    Hell no.

    I don't think soph Jordan comes out so poorly if you compare him to senior Lonny. Lonny's a marginally better free-throw shooter (and I actually think Jordan's starting to get over his Steve Sax Syndrome), but Jordan's at or above Lonny's level everywhere else.

    I know Jordan's the primary option, while Lonny had much more talent around him; but that cuts both ways: Jordan's been piling up stats that exceed Lonny's even though defenses are able to concentrate much more on him.

    I think it's a much closer call than BK does.

    YNCMT

  • Baxter's numbers also came against much, much better competition.

    Baxter's defense is also better, and the half court defense on that Maryland team was really, really good.

    bkmalik

  • WMTerp12 said...

    NCM was really really underrated for whatever reason. He would be an awesome 3rd guy on a top team. In 2005 he took Duke out behind the woodshed in Cameron.

    people overrated the talent around him

    in hindsight it is easy to see that he gave 100% and reached his full potential.....

    winterps

  • terpfan83 said...

    And Blake missed pretty much the same shot with a couple of seconds left that Lucifer made last year to knock us out. A wide open 3 from the top of the key. We were very close to 3 straight Final 4s (of course we still would have had to win one more)

    I contend that if Wilcox stayed, we definitely would have gone to our 3 straight FF. Damn.

    cmterpsnskins

  • cmterpsnskins said...

    I contend that if Wilcox stayed, we definitely would have gone to our 3 straight FF. Damn.

    I think most take that as the likely outcome.

    bkmalik

  • Senior Gist was a better player for that team than Wilcox. He basically combined all the best attributes of Wilcox and Holden into one player.

    Devils0720 ●

  • Really? Gist wasn't nearly the long range shooter or face up player that Holden was, wasn't as athletically versatile as Wilcox was. Gist also didn't have the size that either guy did.

    bkmalik

  • Gist was an outstanding shooter his senior season, he shot the ball from the outside and midrange at just about the same rate as Holden, rebounded and blocked more shots than Wilcox, and was a better FT shooter than either of them.

    Put him next to LB or JW and he probably thrives even more. He would basically give you everything those 2 guys gave you in one player.

    This post was edited by Devils0720 on 2/15/2011 at 8:05 AM

    Devils0720 ●

  • They would all crack the rotation. Gary would love to talk about going 31 deep.

    multiple awards ●

  • WMTerp12 said...

    NCM was really really underrated for whatever reason. He would be an awesome 3rd guy on a top team. In 2005 he took Duke out behind the woodshed in Cameron.

    I remember this game - dude was jacking up 3s from "Coach K Court" with a hand in his face and nailing them.

    PantsEnFuego ●

  • Not sure I agree with that, given that I don' t think the numbers don't strictly translate.

    Also, Holden was a career 39.9% 3 point shooter, Gist 33%. That's a significant difference. The FT % is also a push IMO, although Gist was clearly better than Wilcox there. I just think you are overstating the idea that Gist brought the best of both Wilcox and Holden.

    BTW, this isn't a knock on Gist. He was an excellent player by his senior year. I just don't see the idea that you replace Tahj/Wilcox's production with him and come out even.

    This post was edited by bkmalik on 2/15/2011 at 8:14 AM

    bkmalik

  • bkmalik said...

    Not sure I agree with that, given that I don' t think the numbers don't strictly translate.

    Gist was basically the #2 scoring option on that team and still shot 50%/75%/31%. People really forget how good of a shooter he became in his career. I used to watch him warmup and drain like 20 in a row from nearly halfcourt. It's not ridiculous to think that he could've been even more effective with less attention being paid to him and playing alongside a 5 that demanded double teams like LB or JW.

    Devils0720 ●

  • I actually think SR-version of Hayes may have cracked the rotation. He shot 45% from deep (better than the 2002 versions of Dixon, Blake or Nicholas) and would probably have been a better back up pg than Nicholas.

    joebookman ●

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