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Jordan vacating amateur status?

  • multiple awards

    If he leaves so be it. But it's a lot better for everyone concerned if he stays.

  • historicus said... (original post)

    He doesn't owe us anything. From what I've heard, the degree doesn't mean much to him, nor do our future prospects of winning, that's on the new guys.

    He wants to be an NBA player. It's really obvious that that's his ultimate goal. This years draft is awful, especially when it comes to bigs. A team could like him at the end of the first round and it wouldn't be too much of a reach. If he goes this year he most likely would be a mid to late 2nd round pick.

    You guys are making all sorts of arguments about what he can't do that makes him not an NBA player, but that's irrelevant. There are no complete NBA players in the draft outside the lottery, in this draft outside the top 8 maybe. He has ideal width and rebounding ability, and he can score around the rim. Those traits will get him drafted somewhere. He can learn things in the pros, not just in college.

    He certainly doesn't owe us anything, and he can improve his game in the pros (probably more than in college). The real issue is whether he can make a roster in the NBA. Draftexpress.com (the only reliable draft site) right now has him rd 2 pick 3 in the 2012 draft. It's almost certain that he has no chance of being a first round pick this year regardless of who comes out. The problem with being a second rounder is that it's hardly a guarantee to make a roster and even if you do the team isn't usually committed to developing their 2nd rounders. The 2nd rounders only play if they're good enough to play. Looking at Hollinger's PER for rookies shows that only 33 rookies are on pace for over 500 minutes and the only second rounder from 2010 is Landry Fields (There are some other second rounders from previous drafts that are only NBA rookies now). The bottom line is that a few second rounders can make it, but it's usually an indicator that you won't be in the league very long.

  • GQCoolest

    I think he sees DeJuan Blair, and he's got similar numbers and a similar game, and thinks "yep, that's me." Maybe he's just that desperate to roll. Happens with plenty of guys. Hell, look at Nick Calathes, he left after 2 years to go play in Greece.

    This post was edited by GQCoolest 3 years ago

    Read my writings to nobody in general: http://wp.me/31Y5S

  • charmcity3131 said... (original post)

    People who think he should leave have no idea what they are talking about. If he was going to be a lottery pick of even go somewhere in the first round, I could see that being a decent move (see Terrence Morris).

    Jordan Williams is nowhere close to an NBA draft pick. He just isn't. The guy missed a ridiculous number of layups, does not have a jump shot, does not have any low post moves, is not a great passer, is not a great defender, cannot shoot free throws, is not a good ball-handler, etc, etc, etc.

    I think he has some potential, that if he stays another year or two, he could develop enough skills to go somewhere late in the first round. But that means another offseason of huge improvement, much like the jump from his freshman to sophmore year. Even that might not get it done.

    HOF charmcity analysis here, people.

  • GQCoolest said... (original post)

    I think he sees DeJuan Blair, and he's got similar numbers and a similar game, and thinks "yep, that's me." Maybe he's just that desperate to roll. Happens with lpenty of guys. Hell, look at Nick Calathes, he left after 2 years to go play in Greece.

    except blair has much better footwork and lateral quickness. blair is also more skilled away from the hoop. But youre right that j will might be thinking that way

  • bristolfor3 said... (original post)

    you are being ridiculous. no low post moves? lol. they were on display a lot early in the season when he wasnt constantly doubled. nobody is doubling him in the nba. you are nitpicking. his size and lack of athleticism is what keeps his stock down.

    you guys act like if he doesnt have a long nba career he is going to end up at walmart. he's going to make a lot of money playing basketball in his career. in his mind, why not start now? he's really not that far from his ceiling.

    You tell me a time when you saw Jordan Williams utilize a drop step or an up-and-under or a hook shot. He is kinda clumsy, and his lack of jumping ability leads him to get blocked or fail to finish off easy baskets. How many ridiculous attempts at a reverse layup did he make this year? When the ball goes 20 feet in the air and doesn't come close to hitting the rim? I'm not saying he doesn't have talent or can't be a decent NBA Draft pick. It's just that he is nowhere remotely close to it right now.

    Compare Williams to someone like Tyler Zeller, who isn't nearly as talented as Jordan but is much more polished. He has certain moves down in the post where it's almost an automatic bucket if he gets to a certain spot. That spot for Jordan is right next to the basket, and he often misses chippies or gets fouled and misses the free throws.

  • He has enough strenghts that he can look damn good in a weak ACC year. But as charmcity and others have noted, he has a hell of a lot of weaknesses re NBA players. I'd hope he'd respect the decision GV made re coming back. He went from a possible to not be drafted, or a 2nd round pick at best, if he went after his junior year, to a low first round pick. And that was after his winning ACC POY, first team AA, Cousy award winner. All that and only a low first round pick. Supposedly, Chris Wilcox regretted leaving early. And Chris was far more of an NBA physical talent guy than JW is or ever will be.

    IF he gets the guarantee of a first round pick, stays around, the 2nd contract is where he makes the real dough. If he's a 2nd rounder, no guarantee he ever plays in the NBA. Plus, I'm very skeptical of any "assurance" he might get from an NBA GM. What's Jordan going to do if he's told he'll be a 1st round pick, comes out, and then doesn't get drafted until the 2nd round, sue?!!

    Either (a) he's listening to those who don't have the knowledge/talent evaluation of Gary and NBA GMs, (b) he doesn't think he can physically improve very much (which I doubt, given how much he HAS improved), (c) hates going to classes/school, or (d) just doesn't think next year's team will be much better, and he's sick of being double teamed, and wants out.

  • It'd be a terrible decision but if the dude wants to go, we can't stop him. Pankey/Padgett 2012.

  • charmcity3131 said... (original post)

    You tell me a time when you saw Jordan Williams utilize a drop step or an up-and-under or a hook shot. He is kinda clumsy, and his lack of jumping ability leads him to get blocked or fail to finish off easy baskets. How many ridiculous attempts at a reverse layup did he make this year? When the ball goes 20 feet in the air and doesn't come close to hitting the rim? I'm not saying he doesn't have talent or can't be a decent NBA Draft pick. It's just that he is nowhere remotely close to it right now.

    Compare Williams to someone like Tyler Zeller, who isn't nearly as talented as Jordan but is much more polished. He has certain moves down in the post where it's almost an automatic bucket if he gets to a certain spot. That spot for Jordan is right next to the basket, and he often misses chippies or gets fouled and misses the free throws.

    I agree 100%. He shot 8 airballs from within 2 feet in the last 2 weeks of the season. Everytime I watch Zeller shoot that jump hook I say to myself....why can't Jordan do that.

  • charmcity3131 said... (original post)

    You tell me a time when you saw Jordan Williams utilize a drop step or an up-and-under or a hook shot. He is kinda clumsy, and his lack of jumping ability leads him to get blocked or fail to finish off easy baskets. How many ridiculous attempts at a reverse layup did he make this year? When the ball goes 20 feet in the air and doesn't come close to hitting the rim?

    if what you say is true then losing him is no big deal, he sounds like a terrible player, we'll be better off without all those rediculous reverse layup attempts

  • terps32 said... (original post)

    except blair has much better footwork and lateral quickness. blair is also more skilled away from the hoop. But youre right that j will might be thinking that way

    Jordan was great this year, but he wasn't really in Blair's class.

    Draftexpress has Jordan ranked #79 on their top 100.

    http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/

  • And this isn't about bashing Jordan at all. He seems like a nice kid and has represented the university very well. I'm sure he has heard a lot of these things I'm saying and much more from the coaching staff (and will hear the same from scouts), but is unfortunately likely being told how great he is by people around him hoping he goes big and can hop on the money train.

    There won't be a money train if he leaves this year.

  • historicus said... (original post)

    He doesn't owe us anything. From what I've heard, the degree doesn't mean much to him, nor do our future prospects of winning, that's on the new guys.

    He wants to be an NBA player. It's really obvious that that's his ultimate goal. This years draft is awful, especially when it comes to bigs. A team could like him at the end of the first round and it wouldn't be too much of a reach. If he goes this year he most likely would be a mid to late 2nd round pick.

    You guys are making all sorts of arguments about what he can't do that makes him not an NBA player, but that's irrelevant. There are no complete NBA players in the draft outside the lottery, in this draft outside the top 8 maybe. He has ideal width and rebounding ability, and he can score around the rim. Those traits will get him drafted somewhere. He can learn things in the pros, not just in college.

    Lol I would be willing to bet if he declares this year he wont be a 1st round pick and he will be in the D-League for atleast two years. Maybe Im alone in this sentiment but I would take it as an insult if he left this year.

  • Hogie said... (original post)

    Maybe Gary personally flying to Texas to recruit was a major red flag as opposed to reason to celebrate...

    Unfortunately, this might make a lot of sense

  • bristolfor3 said... (original post)

    if what you say is true then losing him is no big deal, he sounds like a terrible player, we'll be better off without all those rediculous reverse layup attempts

    Yes, because the level of play in the NBA is so similar to that of college basketball. Come on.

    My point is also that I think he can develop into a tremendous player and be a stud at the college level. Also, the drop-off from Jordan to Padgett or Berend is so steep that it would be a huge blow to the team. Should I continue?

  • From Chad Ford's espn.com chat today:

    Kevin (Maryland)

    A question on the draft prospects of some ACC underclassmen. Do you see Kyrie Irving, Chris Singleton, and Jordan Williams leaving early? And if so, where would they project?

    Chad Ford (1:55 PM)

    Sounds like Irving is likely to be in in. Singleton and Williams are both considering. Tough call for Singleton. Earlier in the year I'd say he was ready, but the injury hurt. I like Williams, but scouts all say he needs another year of school. He's a second round pick at best right now.

  • People act like he needs a bevy of low post moves and a face up game to make it in the NBA. The guy is never going to be a starting NBA PF/C, he's destined to be an off the bench role player.

    He can rebound the ball and score in traffic, niche skills that will get him on a roster in the NBA. If it doesn't he'll go make 400k euro.

    I think he should stay, but there's massive amount of fail in this thread when it comes to understanding the NBA. We're talking about a guy who is destined to be a bottom of the 1st/2nd round prospect no matter how long he stays. Maybe he comes back, improves his FT shooting over a full season, shows a little more polish underneath, and a 10 footer...then again maybe he comes back, gets triple teamed, puts up the same or lower numbers than last year, then gets pushed into a deeper draft.

    Not to mention there's the whole angle of training and practicing with and against NBA guys is going to do a whole lot more for his development than ripping on Padgett and Pankey for 3 hours a day and having to attend class in the mean time.

    It's a bad decision for him to go, but it's not hard to see where he's coming from, especially since his priorities likely aren't the same as those of Maryland basketball fans.

  • If Jordan leaves this year, he still will be making a lot of money with the prospect of making even more. It's tough to pass up.

    balderdash

  • GQCoolest

    charmcity3131 said... (original post)

    Also, the drop-off from Jordan to Padgett or Berend is so steep that it would be a huge blow to the team.

    That point is all you really care about, let's be real.

    Read my writings to nobody in general: http://wp.me/31Y5S

  • Taking away nothing from GV or JW, I just love how the success of our team the past 4 years has rested on the shoulders of a single player at a time and each player was a debatable nba draft prospect.

    Cause thats how other teams on our "tier" do it.

    This post was edited by Anthony Soo Kim 3 years ago

  • What Devils said. He probably shouldnt leave, but you can't say there are no benefits to it for him, and you're massively overrating things like "being a great college player".

  • Devils0720 said... (original post)

    It's a bad decision for him to go, but it's not hard to see where he's coming from, especially since his priorities likely aren't the same as those of Maryland basketball fans.

    This is something a lot of people in this thread and on this board overlook. Sometimes winning at the college level doesn't mean quite the same thing to the players as it does the fans.

    Some players love the fame of being a college athlete (Singler gave up lottery status to return for his senior season and the chance to break all kinds of records). Others, just see it as a pass through to the next level.

    balderdash

  • ZackGreinkeTerp said... (original post)

    This is something a lot of people in this thread and on this board overlook. Sometimes winning at the college level doesn't mean quite the same thing to the players as it does the fans.

    Some players love the fame of being a college athlete (Singler gave up lottery status to return for his senior season and the chance to break all kinds of records). Others, just see it as a pass through to the next level.

    Or maybe he does care about winning, but doesn't think he can do it with the guys around him. I don't think it was any secret through some of his words and his body language that he was not happy with the other guys on the court.

    Overall it's a big decision with a lot of factors going into it. These don't always play out the way conventional wisdom or common sense tells fans or analysts it would.

  • Devils0720 said... (original post)

    People act like he needs a bevy of low post moves and a face up game to make it in the NBA. The guy is never going to be a starting NBA PF/C, he's destined to be an off the bench role player.

    He can rebound the ball and score in traffic, niche skills that will get him on a roster in the NBA. If it doesn't he'll go make 400k euro.

    I think he should stay, but there's massive amount of fail in this thread when it comes to understanding the NBA. We're talking about a guy who is destined to be a bottom of the 1st/2nd round prospect no matter how long he stays. Maybe he comes back, improves his FT shooting over a full season, shows a little more polish underneath, and a 10 footer...then again maybe he comes back, gets triple teamed, puts up the same or lower numbers than last year, then gets pushed into a deeper draft.

    Not to mention there's the whole angle of training and practicing with and against NBA guys is going to do a whole lot more for his development than ripping on Padgett and Pankey for 3 hours a day and having to attend class in the mean time.

    It's a bad decision for him to go, but it's not hard to see where he's coming from, especially since his priorities likely aren't the same as those of Maryland basketball fans.

    There's a lot of good points in there, but NBA teams that would want Jordan aren't going to make enough of an investment in him. He's likely a second round pick if he goes this year and if he isn't ready to contribute from Day 1 there's more than a good chance that he won't even make a roster. Your point that he's always likely to be a role player means that he has to be a better role player for his team from day 1 in the league then the 5 or 10 year veteran whose roster spot he would take. If he doesn't make the league straight out of college, it can be quite hard to make it back to the league.

    I'm sure he'd be able to get a job somewhere, although I'm not sure Europe is a great fit. Maybe I'm just relying on old stereotypes, but his skill level doesn't seem like a great fit for a European big man.

  • historicus said... (original post)

    What Devils said. He probably shouldnt leave, but you can't say there are no benefits to it for him, and you're massively overrating things like "being a great college player".

    Unless he is guaranteed a 1st round pick there really isnt any benefits for him. Say he gets picked #3 in the 2nd round then he has no guaranteed contract. So if he gets cut he is WAY worse then the situation he is in now.